I read yesterday in the system3 epoxy pdf book at fibreglass supply .com, that a lot of acetone nowadays is recovered/recycled, and so contains impurities which will mess with your epoxy. Maybe something similar with alcohol? I’m going to try using distilled water and one of the citrus cleaners for my next board.
You do a lam coat, hot coat, and gloss coat with your epoxy boards? Also after the lam is ther anything you should do before hot coating? I keep reading different things… like some peopel saying the hot coat might not bond with the lam if it sits to long or something
I think most of us are doing this nowadays.
but you either squeegee in or lightly dab on a weave filler coat also called a cheater coat on your lam while it’s still tacky. Tacky enough so that the cloth doesn’t move. Guys either dab like 3ozs into the weave or they press it in like Greg does with a squeegee.
And Yup I learned that right here by either searching the archives or reading here every morning/night. Did you read the epoxy resource article I think its in there too…
The cheater coat helps prevent the dreaded epoxy pin hole problem we’ve all encountered…
You can sand and final coat or sand and do another hot coat to seal it even more before the final coat.
Greg’s stuff is so good that a cheater and a final is all you need if you use the additive F and other stuff.
If you make the cheater thick enough you can probably bypass the final and go with a sanded finish for a light board kind of spooky though
Some guys heat up their final epoxy coat in an oven to make it more runny and smooth but a little extra additive F does the same.
The best but stinky finish solution I’ve seen is pink finish resin with Kokua’s magic formula of Styrene and wax additive. That buffs out like clear water and there’s depth in the layer looking down. I do wood skins but colors must be awesome with it.
Some guys also heat up their boards before lamming and hotcoating so the hotcoat resin get sucked in preventing the pinhole blowouts later. That works well to as does glassing in dropping temps(evening).
As far as timing SystemThree I think says 72 hours is the deadline to bond epoxy to epoxy lam to filler/finish
But then why would you want to listen to me, I’m just a weekend hobbiest alot of guys here are pros you should talk to them… Ask Greg he’s Dr. epoxy…
As others have stated the pumps suck. I’ve had them from raka and west systems. Neither are very accurate and you have to mix 1.5 oz every time. I use a scale and can weigh to the 1/10 of a gram or 1/100 of an oz by w. I used the pumps for a while to put resin in the mixing bowl now I just pour. Now I don’t get all of those little round_to_its (wasted epoxy) in the bottom of the mixing bowl anymore. I have a calculator handy to make corrections if I screw up.
Here are a few of the things I do.
Paper mixing bowls ~$2.00 and disposable find them without wax. It can cause problems if it gets mixed into your resin.
Mixing sticks- popsicle sticks (free if you eat the things. Clean and dry before use) Tongue depressors work great too.
The blue paper towels you get from Autozone for wiping up messes. Much better than regular paper towels. I pull out several squares before I start the work.
When you stir in fillers be sure to work out the lumps and mix completely AFTER the hardener is mixed in completely. I use nothing but epoxies and have read that you do just the opposite with poly resins? I have never noticed my fillers separating out before. Be sure to mix completely. It has been suggested by Raka that you mix in one bowl and transfer to another to get the best mix. This could help out with the filler separating. Mix epoxy as required, add filler mix, pour to another bowl mix some more.
Mix ratio for Raka epoxies 2:1 by vol is 1:.43 by weight.
I read someplace that high humidity can be a cause of amine blush. I don’t have too much trouble here, but coastal areas will. Also you have no problem with blush if you’re bagging or curing in an anaerobic environment. Be sure to clean well before you add a new layer. I use water and a scrubby pad, and some elbow grease. I also sand with 80 grit to get the next coat to stick better.
Everything that I use for application is disposable. The only clean up I worry about is work surfaces. I do wipe off my plastic automotive squeegees and use them several times. Same with the mixing sticks. I put plastic sheeting on everything that might get dripped on. Work table, floor etc.
The brush in the freezer idea sounds good to me if I’m coming back to do more to the project. Might save a few trips to the hardware store.
When I use rollers I buy the disposable 3” trim rollers from homedepot. They are as low a knap on the roller as I can find, but don’t use them much anymore. They leave a crappy finish for gloss/fill coats and suck up too much epoxy. I like the 4” brush method from glassing 101. It spreads out easier and fills all of the little corners better.
Hafte
- Any thoughts on sanding down laps? *
With Polyester I used to lam the bottom, dry and then paint a layer of resin just outside the lap line on top. This layer helped prevent me from gouging the airbrush on the board when sanding down the lap. Often, I would follow up with a little acetone on a rag around the lap just to smooth things out.
Looking toward epoxy, I imagine my resin paint step will add a lot of time to my glass job and I know acetone is a no-no. With that said, any good methods with epoxy to avoid gouging the artwork when sanding down the laps?
–RESPECT!
Howzit ras, I have always just squeegeed the extra resin on the rails past the glass which is doing what you do but while laminating instead of doing afterwards. Don’t see why this couldn’t be done with epoxy also,unless you’re doing cut laps.Aloha,Kokua
Hi Tom,
Thank you for all of your input. Like many here, I’m just about to make my first epoxy. I’ve heard the suggestion to hotcoat before the lam fully cures a few times now, but I was wondering if you could further break down the process. My mind is still boggled. It seems to me that if you did one lam, waited for it to harden enough to flip it, laminated the other side, then waited for it to become hard enough to flip back over for the first HC, you would have waited too long and the first lam job would have cured. Is this not the case or are my steps not in order?
Thanks,
Ryan
GORGOUS day at the Steamer Lane today!!! Wish you all could have been there, just not at the peak I was at!
That sounds good, so say if im squeegying the board for a resin swirl, should i really try and pull the cloth dry or leave it kinda wet? if dry and hit with that “cheater coat” should i tape off the rails?
started doing Roy’s freezer trick this past weekend and it works great… great tip. much thanks Roy. i have tried all the ways to clean epoxy off brushes and non of them really work like acatone and poly. i went to the disposable route but it is not cost effective when you are throwing away a few $3 and $4 per board… no waste no solvents only pissed girlfriend about sticky freezer door handle…
RyGuy, that’s the normal procedure for laminating with poly.
I’ve found that my epoxy lams come out better if I laminate in the evening (inhaling foam). By morning, its cured enough to tape off the rail & fill (hot) coat, without flipping.
That night (or the next, or whenever you can get to it), is when you flip it, peel the tape, surform the tape line, surform the laps, and do your other side lam. Again, by morning, its ready to be taped & fill coated. If you can do them both on successive days, you’re also lapping the rails from the second lam onto fresh (less than 24 hrs) epoxy from the preceeding fill coat. If you can’t get to it that fast, I’d hit the area your lap will catch with a little 80 or 100 grit, but not too much.
When you flip the 3rd time to sand your second laps, you might have to paint in another little fill coat because that cloth was below the tape line. On the other hand, you have a lam & fill coat already under that second layer of glass, so just sand it smooth if you want, who cares if you hit fibers. The second set of rail laps usually comes out very smooth since they went over a hotcoat, and not just the first lam.
Heat up your resin for the fill coats (before mixing) and it will flow out like water, paint on easier, and set up within a few hours, instead of the 7-8 that it seems to need for laminating.
“Do a search first”, I’ve did it, so… I got a doubt: how to get started with epoxy, I live in Brazil so it seems that we don’t have “RR” nor “West” systems by here, as well, I simply can’t found someone who can tell me the name in portuguese for “EPS”… I may find lots of styrofoam/polyestirene pieces, but someone in some thread said that EPS is easier to work than styro, so I would like to work with it. By the way, It’s my first attempt on making a board.
I don’t have any experience with polyester resin, I’ve only witnessed sometimes the guys laminating my boards.
If some of Brazilocks guys, specially Nativeson, who appear to have found EPS in Florianopolis, may help me I would appreciate.
Thanks guys,
Joni
dude
polystyrene is eps is styrofoam.
ask a sailing boat person about epoxy
i know they build boats in brazil
EPS stands for “expanded polystyrene”. “Stryofoam” is a brand name of EPS foam.
it does, however, come in different densities. 1-lb is weak, and requires a heavier glassing schedule. 2-lb is good for shortboards with a standard glassing schedule. and 2.5- or 3-lb is good for longboards or other boards that people may like a little heavier.
Ok! Thank you guys! It makes it much easier, forgive my dumbness…
So, eps is really easy to find here, but epoxy not that much, I’m concerned about delam problems, because we have both warm water and air, so people often says that epoxy’s biggest downpoint is exactly the delamination issue.
Talking to a boardbuilder who’s also chem-wise, he said that a epoxy with no “fat” is the one who works better with eps, avoiding delam and allowing a better bond to the foam. I know there are many tricks for a good epoxy glassing job, so I’ll seek into this thread before bother you more.
Hey Silly, yeah, we make boats, ships, planes and much, much more here.
Thank you again, I’ll post pics of the process.
Joni
hey joni
thats a start
if you really want to know about epoxy resin
talk to boat builders not board builders
unless they actually use it
i have got so much bulshit from board builders when i first started asking around
what your looking for from a "boat building resin " is
clear and runny laminating resin
slow hardener
ultra violet light resistant
low blush
the word "laminating"is a key word becuase it is of “low viscosity” or “runny”
Lately, I’ve been seeing some eps / epoxy boards laminated with a ‘breather’ plug. Anyone have any background on the true value of this component?
I just installed a vent plug on my first board. As I understand it, you need a vent on the lower density EPS. #2 EPS and above don’t need the vent because the density prevents the foam from gassing as much. You open the vent when you’re not using the board and close the vent while surfing to prevent water from getting inside.
OK, just laid up a epoxy fin panel onto glass. Short story is that the glass has broken and is stuck to the panel.
I don’t want to throw out this piece, do you people reckon put it into a shallow dish with vinegar to seep into the cracks or what other methods do you think would work…
Did that one back in 1995, used 14 layers of release wax as advised and got an incredibly strong glass/epoxy bond in spite of it. Living on an offshore island in the bush, throwing away the panel wasn’t an option so I just chiselled the glass away piece by piece (safety glasses). . . . took about a week.
OK, just laid up a epoxy fin panel onto glass. Short story is that the glass has broken and is stuck to the panel.
I don’t want to throw out this piece, do you people reckon put it into a shallow dish with vinegar to seep into the cracks or what other methods do you think would work…
A hammer and safety goggles.
Formica releases well for next time.