Aloha Greg:
Agreed. I don't see the big fuss of choosing one over the other. Both epoxy and poly have their place. I use both depending on the blank I am glassing. The last six boards I made were poly. My next two will be epoxy. I try to avoid the conflict and do what is best for the situation. Flexibility is the key. What the neck, I am a garage builder and do what I like anyway. Old local saying: If can, can! If no can,no can!
Keeping it simple.
D
Howzit Greg, I have to agree with you on that since I was one of the most anti-epoxy of them all. But i think that when Clark shut down and pu blnks were hard to come by, builders were trying the styro blanks and epoxy also. That meant that epoxy got used a lot more and the plus side of it was discovered more and now it is very accepted in the industry. The other factor is the toxic side of pu and the blowing of the blanks. In all the blanks on the market today are a lot better than before Clark closed and you are seeing a lot more epoxy boards in the water. I think the future of epoxy is going to be a rosy one for sure. Aloha,Kokua
[quote="$1"]
Stingray, to answer your questions, I'm in Florida, so the temperatures should be warm enough (hopefully not too warm). I'll be using a Teccel blank and am looking at either SS2000 Epoxy resin with SS2H30 Hardener from Surf Source......
[/quote]
Hello NaCl_H20,
If Keith M says that a brand of blanks is hard to hand shape it means that he has shaped more than one. And you can trust the guy. Did you notice that he did not bash the blank company? I have never used Surf Source Resin so I choose not to comment on the product. I'm a big fan of Resin Research.The product has improved so much over the last five years it's amazing! You have lot's of options in Florida. You also have companies like Foamez and Greenlight that will ship to you. Try searching the General Discussion instead of the archives. There's a guy named Surfding that has done some great EPS/Epoxy vs. PU/Poly testing.
Ray
Aloha Saltwater,
I'll toss in my 2. If you are going to start from day one with laminating and shaping. I'd recommend starting with poly blanks and uv poly resin. PU/PE is cheaper, easier to shape, and the UV resin will allow you to learn how to laminate without having complete throw-a-way mistakes. Only real downside is the smell is horrid. A small enclosed space and high heat even the UV is lethal. Both the Aluzine and RR Epoxy have a smell but nothing like Poly.
I did the PU/epoxy route for a while and still do on occasion but in high heat areas there can be problems over time with some resin blank combos. And again the resin is expensive.
If your going to be taking the leap into shaping for the first time the eps can be less forgiving than the poly blanks. Some of the hard aussie style of foam can be an aid to prevent overshaping.
With all that said as long as your comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges, a properly laminated EPS/Epoxy board will last longer and maintain it's kick far longer than a somewhat comparable PU/PE. Only downside is it will yellow and sanding epoxy is a bit more challenging.
So give poly a shot but definately learn how to do EPS/Epoxy. For small wave grovlers the light/durable mix is hard to beat.
I like EPS/Epoxy boards for certain types of waves and conditions, and as fragile as they can be a fresh PU/Pe with a good set of glass ons is so very very nice!
Nice to hear that everyone seems to have accepted that different conditions require different tools. One of the most interesting developments along the way is that today the vast majority of boards are epoxy … especially if you include the sister sports. SUP alone is huge and not getting any smaller. But whether its sailboards, snowboards, wakeboards, skimboards, SUP’s etc., they are all being made with epoxies today. Surfboards are left as really the only polyester product left. Where this goes in the future remains to be seen … interesting to watch considering where we were when I began on this site about 8 years ago when we had about 5% of the market. Interesting that even in the surfboard industry is well over 50% epoxy today … this is even hard for me to believe … all since Clark left.
BTW, we’ve done testing on yellowing for years and polyester has always yellowed worse … epoxy boards generally last longer so there is the perception that they yellow more. And there used to be a lot of mix errors that also helped that perception … these are not as prevalent today because of better craftsmanship and formulation changes. The newer epoxies, in the last 2 years or so, are far better than the original formulations.
[quote="$1"]
I've only shaped and glassed 3 boards so far, after 2 I developed a really bad allergic reaction to the epoxy. Swollen and puffy eyes for about 3 weeks. No more epoxy for me. I used the epoxy for all the pros mentioned in the posts. The one con not mentioned was the one thing that happened to me. After talking with several longtime builders I found that rarely does anyone develop a sensitivity to poly, only epoxy.
[/quote]
Same thing happened to me when I built a boat using System 3 Epoxy. Having no smell lured me into a false sense of security and I wasn't diligent about wearing gloves. Plus no one ever mentioned not using acetone for cleanup as this gave the diluted epoxy an easier way to enter the body. After enough accumulated in my system one day bam!! Some really nasty reactions that got progressively worse.
Wear gloves people! For those of you who think you won't become sensitized good luck, if you don't follow the basic precautions it may get you eventually.
Greg was very kind to discuss some of the aspects of RR epoxy with me which makes it safer than the older versions from other companies that caused some major health problems. It sucks, I would really like to use EPS and epoxy but I never will be able to. I'd like to try the RR but I'd rather not use my Epi-Pen if I do have a reaction to it.
Those old systems are hideous. I used to exhibit at the Miami Boat show and there was a steady stream of people coming by sharing horror stories. Those marine companies … they should be ashamed … they’ve lost more customers to this than we have customers.
This is all really great stuff. It’s funny how no one really comes out gung ho for polyester. It seems like poly is the old standby but many are enthusiastic about the epoxy. I read the 10 page EPS Epoxy guide from Research Resin and wow, what a wealth of information. As someone posted above it does seem that within the past couple years there have been great developments-
As for the allergic reactions, after reading that guide, older epoxies, and some brands other than research resin use phenol or formaldahyde in the hardener and they are both toxic.
A side note on acetone… I am an engineer, but worked with a chemist for a little while. I used to use acetone to wipe up all sorts of glue off of bottles, or get paint off my hands, ding repair, etc and never thought much of it. I was informed that being the unbelievable solvent it is, it actually disolves things so well that they become small enough to instantly pass through your skin and directly into the blood stream (maybe everyone else knew that, I didn’t). I wear gloves now, and have even had some of the nitrile gloves start to soften and dissolve before. Can’t be too careful with chemicals. Most folks think just because anyone can buy it off a shelf it is safe dispite the warning. Like Seinfeld says “the only warning label anyone pays attention to is ‘dry clean only’.”
I was wondering if acetone is so dangerous, and I’m not arguing that it’s not, how come my girlfriends got it in a bottle of nail polish remover and she wipes it all over her hands?
I’ve walked around with epoxy on my hands for 30 years … never an issue. I don’t use acetone and I only wash with waterless cleaners. Our factory hasn’t has acetone in the building in almost 20 years. I also always wear gloves but still get some on me every day. Disposable gloves. Anybody ever use Playtex gloves and then smell the insides after washing them in acetone and peeling them off? You can smell the acetone inside the gloves. Stuff goes right through. IMHO, acetone has no place in an epoxy shop.
I agree Greg,100%
I stopped using acetone and only use orange based hand cleaners or 99% pure isopropyl alcohol to clean hands, and tools respectively… Still need gloves for iso alcohol though imho… And gloves to lam for sure…
I don’t always use a respirator though, my bad… I usually have the room temp cranked up to 80+, and a respirator makes you feel hotter and drip sweat onto the lam… After an epoxy coated board goes in a vac bag there is minimal voc’s in the surrounding room air… Also, I go through at least 6 pair of disposable gloves per side, you gotta have non sticky clean gloves when messin’ with bagging supplies… And…Oh yeah… Epoxy rules !!!
Saying that,Resin X has sure perked my interest though… I’m picking up some of their H20 waterbased clear coat, but I haven’t tried it yet… I would love to try a Resin X vac laminate…
Please don’t follow my bad example…( no respirator)
Hey Resinhead…
Where did you get those big fat dots ???
( floating periods)
I want some…
Ah… You’re a “poly sniffer” I should have guessed…
Kiterider,
Try white vinegar from the grocery store. Other than a bit of smell, 1/4 the cost of alcohol, and it doesn’t dry out your skin.
Thanks Everysurfer!!
I vaguely remember reading something about white vinegar and epoxy removal, but I’ve never tried it…
I’ll give it a go… Thanks…