I’ve been pigmenting my eps/epoxy boards white for the past few months. I apply laminates after sanding with a patch of cloth over them then feather a bit and clear over that and fine sand. The problem is over time there is often yellowed(sunburn) area over and around the laminate. The yellowing also seems to be in the shape of the cloth patch that is over the laminate. Do certain cloths yellow in sunlight more? I know the white pigment accentuates the degree of yellowing making it seem more noticeable. Any solutions? Thought about just using epoxy with no cloth over laminate but this could be a bit touchy to fine sand.
Are you using a UV inhibitor in your resin? So far I’ve had pretty good results with the Resin Research “blue.”
Check the archives to find out more.
Hey...
Here we call the logo application you use a "float patch".
I have a board I added a logo to in this way a couple of years later using polyester over epoxy...no problem so far, no yellow...
Try polyester, just for your float patch, maybe.
Or...2pac finish your boards...it does'nt yellow.
Josh
thanks for the reply speedneedle. Your suggestion was what I was hoping to hear. I know my epoxy mixes are good so they shouldnt be yellowing on the float patch. Inquired about a UV inhibitor for the fiberglass hawaii epoxy I use and was told they didn’t carry anything. Since I use a UV inhibitor for poly it should keep the float patch nice and clear.
speedneedle your website rocks very imprressive
Might have missed the mix ratio a bit on the patch. Missing mix ratio is a sure way for epoxy to yellow faster. Also could be the cloth. We've been seeing some fabric yellowing as well. Not a fan of poly over epoxy. It'll cause problems later. Seems the Aussies are really onto this right now and haven't found out yet. About a 5 year lag to really find that one out. UV absorber wouldn't help in this case since it's a resin or cloth thing and not a substrate issue. I'm guessing mix problem because it's a small batch and it's yellowing faster than the rest of the board..
hmm after 5 yrs seems like a few other things arise as well
a epoxy poly board giving good service for 5 yrs seems like a very good deal to me.
**are you sugesting the aussies are 5 yrs off the pace haaa’’
**
Hey Josh,
You and your Aussie brothers mention “2pac” quite a bit as a final clear coat. I’m guessing it’s a 2 part linear polyurethane. Back when I was working at Channins, there was an auto body repair shop next door. When they sprayed the stuff, they where wearing full space suits and fresh air respirators 'cause the stuff is really toxic.
What exactly is 2pac? is it a brand name and can you spray it without serious safety protection and an expensive automotive spraybooth?
Google search results for 2pac brings up a bunch of links for a dead rapper.
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Greg what kind of problems did you find using poly over epoxy? Peeling and a poor bond? I think the reason the patch is showing up sunburn is because the rest of the board is bright white with the pigment and this is accentuating any discoloring. The reason I think it is the cloth (hexcel) is the discoloration is exactly the same shape as the patch. If it was resin I would think the discoloration would extend beyond the patch since I brushed it about five inches out around the perimeter so that it could be feathered well. Oh well, it still is a good reminder to be even more accurate with the mix. Thanks for the input.
Hey Atom,
Yes, 2-part polyurethane. I use it in the spray bay with extraction, after my workshop colleagues have gone home, and a good respirator.
The recommndations differ for occasional use such as the likes of me, with a handful of boards, but for day-in-day-out use in a production context such as the panel shop, the minimum would be for an air-fed respirator. The set-up for perfect-off-the-gun finish, not requiring cutting back to polish, would be one of those full-on sealed, temperature controlled rooms and space-suits.
Josh
I've patched on logos with poly. Just need a good scuff on the surface. No probas after a year. Its not really part of the structure of the board, its just a little patch, basically for looks, works fine.
For one a even a few boards it's OK. But I did it in production. First year you think this is genius, a couple com,e back. Second year you see a couple more and a handful from the year before. Third year you starting to wonder as your fixing one or two a week. By year five your fixing 10 a week and the whole thing is a nightmare. Lots of us did it ... we all payed the price in the end. We used all different kinds of resins to try to acheive this, epoxys and polys. We tried everything we could think of and nothing proved reliable.
Epoxy is fast enough for hot coating, almost as fast as poly. With Add F epoxy sands as well as poly. Epoxy hot coats are significantly stronger and reliable. So why? Why build a less quality that has a time bomb built in? I saw peeling hot coats with my label on them! NO THANKS .... never again.
And 5 years? I had a customer bring me a 9 year old board that had a peeling hot coat ...... 9 YEARS!! He was PISSED!!! My name is on that thing forever. Never again.
KINETIX® R104 is now available for the Australian surfboard
industry. R104 provides a rapid room temperature cure for surfboard
lamination, with a clear bloom free finish that has excellent adhesion
to polyester or polyurethane topcoats. Superior toughness and
resistance to yellowing, provides extended longevity with normal use.
not my words theres
**
**
I wrote the same words about our epoxy 20 years ago .... I was wrong.
SP wrote the same about their epoxy 20 years ago ..... they were wrong
Systems Three wrote the same about their epoxy 20 years ago .... they were wrong
Surf Systems wrote the same about theirs ... they were wrong
Ask anyone in FL where they've been doing production epoxy boards for 25 years. It's not dependable enough.
Polyester top coats can be done .... just don't do it in production and don't sell the boards you do this on. No matter what the resin manufacturer might say, it's not dependable. Get a few thousand out there and you'll see.
And again, epoxy hot coats are stronger, are almost as fast as poly and sand just the same .... why on earth would you do this today?
[quote="$1"]
.... why on earth would you do this today?
[/quote]
What does Coil do? Isnt that just the same? Poly over epoxy? You know the answer, so, if you are not breaking any secrecy acts... tell us!!
Yeah, hey Greg, rest assured I'm not going there. I watched it happen to my cousins racing skis...as you suggest, about 25yrs ago!
The float patch I mentioned, in poly suncure was a quickie job after I'd ground out that "other" decal...
Josh
i have said this before there is so much mis in formation on this site you need a shovel to wade through it
me thinks you push your barrow a bit to much’
if these people dont know what there doing how come they are industry leaders ?
if your resin is so good why would you bother with the surf industry.
&if poly is no good on epoxy then the urathane 2 pks are bound to fail just as quick
green epoxy & poly hates it
**well mixed&properly cured epoxy poly sticks fine imo’
**
Sticks fine, sure...
But, I think the problem is that the two resins shrink at different rates, or the poly becomes more brittle. This would mean that eventually, after the millionth expand/contract with temperature changes and continued shrinking/hardening, the bond pops.
I say, the impact zone of feet stomps accelerates that potential for the bond to pop. I saw whole sections of poly hotcoat falling off EPS racing paddleboards in big silvery slivers.
2pac however...no issue...its a very similar chemical composition.
I have no barrow to push with any epoxy brand, and use the one I do because its an easy drive to pick up a jug.
I could tell you the most amazing story about that ATL formula, but we're not going there, not here...
Josh
yea 2 pk like smoking 40 cigs a day good for your health
**josh i can no longer go anywhere near epoxy **
**so i dont realy give a fig. **
**so i take it you are using rr
**
[quote="$1"]
I wrote the same words about our epoxy 20 years ago .... I was wrong.
SP wrote the same about their epoxy 20 years ago ..... they were wrong
Systems Three wrote the same about their epoxy 20 years ago .... they were wrong
Surf Systems wrote the same about theirs ... they were wrong
Ask anyone in FL where they've been doing production epoxy boards for 25 years. It's not dependable enough.
Polyester top coats can be done .... just don't do it in production and don't sell the boards you do this on. No matter what the resin manufacturer might say, it's not dependable. Get a few thousand out there and you'll see.
And again, epoxy hot coats are stronger, are almost as fast as poly and sand just the same .... why on earth would you do this today?
[/quote]
Epoxys have come a long way since then.
I use ATL's epoxy, mainly because it the easiest one I can get hold of, and I like the end product,
If its mixed right and cured properly, no problems
But, I still wouldn't put poly over epoxy even though they say its OK.
In fact i only use epoxy now.
Cheers