I’ve been told that 2.5# eps has similiar weight/density to clark superlight. If this is accurate then a board made from 2.5 with a standard glass job and epoxy resin should be a little lighter and a little stiffer (due to the resin only) than it’s poly counterpart and so should be pretty close in riding “feel” This is my before the fact thinking. Has anyone DONE the above , and if so what’s your experiencewith the ride/feel ?
I hate to steal your thread, I really do, but does it matter how it feels in relation to a Clark blank? It’s safe to say that in a couple of years, most boards made with Clark blanks will be out of circulation to the general public, and that “feel” will be gone. Just like boards today don’t feel like the balsa boards they “improved” upon. If you had only ever ridden EPS boards, that would be the feel you’re used to, and a Clark blank would be different. Whenever you had a PU board shaped you’d ask for it to feel like an EPS board. Since the foams you’re comparing have relatively similar densities, then it’s not the foam that gives you the feel. It’s the resin. And like you said, the epoxy resin will make it stiffer. So you won’t get that “feel” if the feel you’re looking for is a Clark superlight glassed with polyester resin.
Sorry. So now that I’m done, can anyone answer this dude’s question?
Theres lots of stuff in the archives on this but having said that
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I’ve been told that 2.5# eps has similiar weight/density to clark superlight
yes
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If this is accurate then a board made from 2.5 with a standard glass job and epoxy resin should be a little lighter and a little stiffer (due to the resin only)
depends on the particular resin you use
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than it’s poly counterpart and so should be pretty close in riding “feel”
yes
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Has anyone DONE the above , and if so what’s your experiencewith the ride/feel ?
Availability of the 2.5# density is limited where im at but I should be able to tell you in a few weeks
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I hate to steal your thread, I really do, but does it matter how it feels in relation to a Clark blank?
are you nuts?? of course it matters. the great majority of the world has been riding Clark foam for half a century. it’s their baseline in any comparison with a new foam or other construction technique.
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It’s safe to say that in a couple of years, most boards made with Clark blanks will be out of circulation to the general public
i don’t know WHAT you do to your boards…but i still ride boards i’ve had for 12+ years…all made with Clark foam. out of circulation? not by a long shot! and what does it matter whether you’re “the general public” or not?! Clark is done…no more new blanks…it doesn’t matter who you are…Robert August, Al Merrick, Tyler Hatzikian…none of them will have Clark foam to make new boards with. but that doesn’t mean all the old boards are just going to fade away.
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…and that [Clark] “feel” will be gone.
what’s to say you can’t get the same “feel” from a walker, bennet, surfoam, or another urethane blank?
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Just like boards today don’t feel like the balsa boards they “improved” upon. If you had only ever ridden EPS boards, that would be the feel you’re used to, and a Clark blank would be different. Whenever you had a PU board shaped you’d ask for it to feel like an EPS board. Since the foams you’re comparing have relatively similar densities, then it’s not the foam that gives you the feel. It’s the resin. And like you said, the epoxy resin will make it stiffer. So you won’t get that “feel” if the feel you’re looking for is a Clark superlight glassed with polyester resin.
i really thought you were finally catching on up until that last part. epoxy resin has greater elasticity than polyester resin, and allows for greater flex in the board. if the rider wants a stiffer board (perhaps something more comparable with a board of PU/PE construction), (s)he can change the stringer setup or glassing schedule to reduce flexibility and increase weight. so…how then is it IMPOSSIBLE to ever get the FEEL of a Clark-cored board?
the guy i get my eps blanks from told me its #1.5 that has the clark feel…and that #2. you could make thinner to keep same float… also from another eps thread someone said #3. would probably make a good stringer…sooo…
Has anyone DONE the above, and if so, what’s your experience with the ride/feel ? Thanks in advance for staying on subject with responses.- Regards
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… Since the foams you’re comparing have relatively similar densities, then it’s not the foam that gives you the feel. It’s the resin. And like you said, the epoxy resin will make it stiffer. So you won’t get that “feel” if the feel you’re looking for is a Clark superlight glassed with polyester resin.
Sorry. So now that I’m done, can anyone answer this dude’s question?
Hey Rachel,
I was with you up until the above part. True, clark is a thing of the past. I suppose other poly’s will have similar “feel” though. True, resin, glass, stringer effect feel. But there is more to “feel” than density. There are other properties to a foam that can significantly effect feel. At a given density, different foams can have different elasticity/rigidity. Words come up like lively, stability, skittish, smooth, even the sound can effect perception which might be part of “feel”. Weight and stiffness definitely effect those feelings but another important features of a foam is how it dampens vibration.
I don’t know the resonance, or dampening properties of the PU/EPS foams, but if they’re different, they will have a different feel. That may be adjusted some with glassing, stringers, and density, but, if all is pretty equal (densities, stringers, dimensions, and glassing), and the foams have different dampening characteristics, the feel will be different.
I think that’s the type of input patrick is looking for. I for one don’t have that comparison. I’ve ridden a 10’2" Takayama surftech, compared to my 10’2" Harbour and the feel is quite different. But of course they’re worlds apart in materials.
I’ve made two Clark blank boards with epoxy and all the rest have been with 2#EPS and epoxy.
Of the boards C/E that were similar in length, thickness, width, etc… the C blanks seemed stiffer, less responsive. The EPS is lighter weight and seems to respond faster/easier(?). Each board I make seems to just get better and better as I continue to work with this new material.
I surfed from ‘63’ to 78 pretty regular 10’ to 7’2" boards, then only 1 or 2 per year till 3 years ago, now 2-3x per week and I’ve made 8 boards, 8’ to (now working on) 11’6".
As have been mentioned here before, the materials are changing and so will the styles of surfing. We just have to keep our minds open and do a little experimenting.
DrLes
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are you nuts?? of course it matters. the great majority of the world has been riding Clark foam for half a century. it’s their baseline in any comparison with a new foam or other construction technique.
Just because we feel the need to compare new foam to Clark foam doesn’t mean the boards need to be exactly alike. That’s the point of improvements on inventions. Your car doesn’t drive like a Model T, but it’s got some of the (relatively) same parts. Combustible engine? Check. Wheels? Check.
Foam? Check. Resin? Check. A V8 is gonna feel different from a V6, that’s just how it is.
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i don’t know WHAT you do to your boards…but i still ride boards i’ve had for 12+ years…all made with Clark foam. out of circulation? not by a long shot! and what does it matter whether you’re “the general public” or not?! Clark is done…no more new blanks…it doesn’t matter who you are…Robert August, Al Merrick, Tyler Hatzikian…none of them will have Clark foam to make new boards with. but that doesn’t mean all the old boards are just going to fade away.
I take pretty good care of my boards, and I’m sure that other people who do will still have their boards for a good long time. But the next generation of board buyers and builders won’t have (and never did in the first place) access to Clark blanks, and that need for their board to mimic a board made with a Clark blank will be gone. So it’s probably best we just speed up the process and explore the new things we can do with EPS and epoxy, like perimeter stringer blanks and the like. I don’t think Bert’s boards would be possible with PU. And since he’s turning young up-and-coming surfers on the NSSA onto the boards he’s helping the turnover.
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what’s to say you can’t get the same “feel” from a walker, bennet, surfoam, or another urethane blank?
I’m not saying you can’t get the feel. But I’m sure surfers in Australia who use Bennet blanks excusively and aren’t suffering from “Blank Monday” don’t go looking for the Clark feel. Same with Surfoam in France. Newer PU blanks have made advances too. Some of them don’t get softer the further in you shape. They don’t need to be close tolerance. Maybe the soft core in a Clark blank gave it that feel. All just conjecture really, but it’s an aspect I’ve never seen explored.
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i really thought you were finally catching on up until that last part. epoxy resin has greater elasticity than polyester resin, and allows for greater flex in the board. if the rider wants a stiffer board (perhaps something more comparable with a board of PU/PE construction), (s)he can change the stringer setup orD glassing schedule to reduce flexibility and increase weight. so…how then is it IMPOSSIBLE to ever get the FEEL of a Clark-cored board?
I was simply taking what he had said about epoxy and saying that if his use of epoxy will make it stiffer, than that is what it will be. Sure, you can change the glass schedule, stringer set-up and the like to change the flex and other characteristics, but why would you want to? Is a shaped Clark blank with Polyester resin really the yardstick to which we hold all other surfboards to? And since you can easily change the glassing schedule on your Clark and the stringer material, even the blank densities themselves! so what standard are you looking at?
To wit, I enjoyed Swaylocks so much more when discussions were about new technology and techniques. Now, all I read about are how people want to just survive this blank crisis and get back to the way things were. I don’t really think that’s in the spirit of Swaylocks itself. We need to let go of the security blank(et) and get on with things.
And dude, I’m sorry your question hasn’t been answered as of yet. I’m sure someone has tested that out and can get back to you soon. Otherwise, I’d say just jump into it and test it yourself. If you do come to hate the feel, give the board to some super-stoked grom who’s never gonna know the difference.
many variable with surboard feel…yes…but what i think what we’re trying to accomplish in this thread is the float feeling…which eps foam will float the same weight as clark foam would…this knowledge would come into play when your planing foam as you would have an idea as to how much you can plow before the board has the same bouyancy as the clarks youve always made…
I have a 8’2" 2# EPS covered with balsa and epoxy. It’s a bit more floaty but it’s made to last, so it’s heavier than a regular board. I love it. It may be because I made the board, but I haven’t been disappointed with it, and I’ve ridden it in 10’ faces. I tried the same shape with 1# and went down to under 2" thick. The board works fine, but I think this was a little too thin.
I haven’t tried a long surftech that I liked. Other guys I know agree that they were too thick, so they rode higher on the water, and didn’t glide very well.
I think the big differences with these boards is that you would want to shape them slightly thinner than a poly, or make them slightly heavier. Then it should feel the same, but I can’t say whether the flexing would feel the same. Some north shore guys are making extremely light EPS Epoxy boards for guys like Andy Irons. They said those guys all want extremely light boards. I haven’t heard whether they like them or not.
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but I can’t say whether the flexing would feel the same
Flex can be contolled, different stringer configs, different resins, different constructions
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Some north shore guys are making extremely light EPS Epoxy boards for guys like Andy Irons. They said those guys all want extremely light boards. I haven’t heard whether they like them or not.
Ive heard the feedback is good BUT thats not what everyone wants