Hi Erik. I was wondering how that bluefoam/roofmate board worked out for you. From what Greg L has said, it sounds like delam might be a problem. I’ve been thinkning of trying to build a board from this foam, but am just curious if you’ve found any problems with it. Thanks Dee
Yes I did state that extruded foam does delaminate. And it does. But the boards I’ve made out of it do ride good, and if this is just a home project, why not. When I talk about delamination I’m talking about a percentage of production. I don’t think this foam should be used to make boards that are sold. Just making one for yourself though, gee, so what if you get a delam, it’s just a surfboard. No ones gonna die. You do know that it must be laminated with epoxy, right?
Hey Greg Derek here…we chatted on the phone last week about your epoxy and additive F…the guy that surfs the Great Lakes…ring a bell? I had tried a piece of extruded foam as a test piece during the summer…seemed to shape well with enough texture for resin to get a hold of and make a decent bond, but after hearing about the delam problem you mentioned…I became a little concerned about going ahead with a full board. I agree with you that you can’t go around selling boards that delaminate…not good for business…but I also don’t want to spend the time and money to shape up a board that’s going to be useless after one season either. So you’re saying that it’s a smaller percentage of boards that have this problem? I’m looking into EPS foam as well. There’s a supplier of large blocks nearby…all different sizes and densities. Still trying to decide what to try next! Later Dee
Hello Greg, I’ve made boards with this foam to, but never had any delam problems, I have one wich is seven years old now and stil looks good. Are we talking the same blanks ? I use the bleu foam from the Dow factory’s. If so then it might be that I always use a vacuum bag or the plastic cover method (see the bad drawings that I posted)to lam these boards. The epoxy resin I use has a 100/35 mix and is very strong, non UV stable resin. I heat it up so its almost like water so I have to work fast, after the lam job I heat the room up like an oven. (temps are over 45 Celsius.) Maybe its because its water thin en pressed into the foam there’s such a good bond. The results are good I think. Regards Peter Rijk.
We tryed techniques like the one you mentioned and some still delaminated. Not all did. Again as I said above, it’s a percentage thing. An unacceptable percentage delaminated for these things to be sold by a manufacturer. And most of the delams were heat related. In other words the customer allowed the board to be overheated, generally in a car. Delamination probably happened to 25% of the boards built. That means that 75% didn’t. As a manufacturer 25% is a nightmare. A HUGE one! But if your just building boards for yourself it not as big a deal. I have a doctor friend who builds all his own boards, just for fun. He uses blue board on all his boards and likes it. He gets an occasional delam but to him it’s no big deal. He just repairs it and keeps on riding. He likes the fact that it never leaks and it easy to shape and glass. And it’s light. Again, I look at this from a manufacturers point of veiw which may be much different than a home builder. We use EDRO EPS foam because it NEVER delaminates.
Hi Greg, well you know I’m just a hobby builder and I’ve only just finished shaping the blank. It took me a while as it was all square to start with. I’ts also the first board I’m building. My only experience so far is that You have to be careful when shaping, as the sandpaper can really dig in to the foam and make deep ugly marks. Right now I’m making some templates for the airbrush, will post the board on the forum when finished (I’ts gonna take a while). I once talked to a guy who used to shape a lot of sailboards for a living, also doing some prototypes for big sailboard brand Mistral. He told me his experience with making surfboards from this blue foam was excellent, and if I decided to make one he said it would last “forever”. Well who knows time will tell, I’ll let You know when I’m finished. Erik
Hey Greg You might also want to check out some info about building boards from extruded polystyrene/epoxy. Type epoxy+surfboard+styrofoam in to the google search engine and You’ll get a link to a pdf-file. Good luck Erik
Now this is funny! Greg…needing help building epoxy boards!
Oh, just realised i adressed the wrong person in my post… Well, Whatever…
I’ve said this before but I guess it bares repeating. Not every board built with extruded polystyrene will delaminate. But an unacceptable percentage will for this material to be used to make boards that are sold. Also, again, heat is the source of the delaminations. I live in Florida. It’s HOTTTTT here! The inside of my car reaches over 200ºF every day for six months of the year. Now if you live in Norway or Alaska or Siberia you’ll probably never see the problem. But if you live in a place like that and take your favorite extruded board with you on vacation to Bali, guess what? Again, I don’t see ANYTHING wrong with using this material to make boards. Just don’t sell them.
Greg, perhaps this is a foolish question… but would there be any advantage to shaping a board out of this foam and then heat curing it, say at 200 degrees for 8 hours? Would that help reduce the chances of outgassing and delamination?
Greg, what I meant to say was a period of heat cure, PRIOR to lamination…
First, it softens at 140º. Melt’s far below 200º Others have theorized that heating the foam for a period would solve some of the issues but in my experience I don’t think it works. At least 100%. I don’t really understand why everyone wants this stuff to work so bad. Edro foam is vertually the same product with no problems.
And it’s white!
First, it softens at 140º. Melt’s far below 200º Others have theorized that heating the foam for a period would solve some of the issues but in my experience I don’t think it works. At least 100%. I don’t really understand why everyone wants this stuff to work so bad. Edro foam is vertually the same product with no problems. – Greg, thats an excellent point... I had no idea it has such a low heat tolerance, and softening at 140 degrees would be more than enough to cause delamination! It doesnt take much to raise a vehicle`s inside temperature to 120 to 150 degrees. It seems reasonable to require core stability well in excess of any rise in temp which a board would be subjected. Do you know if the molded epoxy boards which are manufactured overseas have been evaluated at higher than normal temperatures?
Some of the boards from overseas are called thermal laminates. They are using a core mateial in the skin that is usually a PVC foam. The liminate and PVC foam are heat cured before the interior foam, which is polystyrene, is installed. This heat curing helps soften and form the pvc foam and also helps the epoxy cure more rapidly for quicker demolding. The interior foam is glued into place by a foaming epoxy which locks the blank in place and fills any voids or gaps. This is a real rough idea of the process and each place has different techniques to arrive at a similar product.
Hey Greg. I can’t speak for the others that wanted to try using the blue foam, but for me, the reason I was going to have a go at it, is availability. I can’t find a supplier of board blanks or foam blocks (cut my own blanks)nearby. The last time I did up some boards, I had to pay the blank cost + excahnge to Can$ + import duties + shipping = HUGE $$$ for a few blanks. It basically doubles the blank cost, so I gues it just came down to $$ for me…if I could find something more local, that works well, I’d use that instead. I am interested in this EDRO foam that you have mentioned though. Could you refresh our memory on what the acronym EDRO stands for…as well as this foam’s uses. I tried doing a search on the web and couldn’t find a thing. I’d give this foam a mow if I could find a more local producer. Thanks for all your input to Swaylock’s Derek