Thanks for all the replies.
Let’s hope for the best.
I’m sure it will be better than a brazilian second hand board i once bought where i had problems with both side fins because the plug install wasn’t connected to the deck glass at all.
Logan 5,
the whole situation is SO simple, if you have the ORIGINAL BLACK PVC plugs and do a H pattern install, with a slow mix, then sweet, no problems.
ANY other plug FCS released that is colored or not the the original BLACK PVC is sub-standard and will likely crack and fail.
The evil part is that FCS know and supported the the release of various new plugs that were made of materials (PVC) and given a new fancy P2 name,
using cheaper and inferior materials and design as a pretend to invent the NEXT GENERATION plug.
That was their first con job, followed by the FUSION plugs.
Investment bankers taking control of an iconic brand and then running riot over our industry, with nothing but $$$$$ signs in their eyes and a “who cares what happens” attitude.
You will notice that FCS will NOT challenge this post with anything other than to try and deride me or anyone who questions their technical approach to plug design.
Their safety net is to hope that this thread and any criticism of their plugs just dies a natural death thru ignorance.
Over to you, Ron ( the poor East Coast stooge for the Bankers) to get technical and trash me once again as an ill informed critic.
Rocky
Logan-
Bryant here from FCS… to paraphrase Rocklobster (or Tony Anonymous) about the “evil part” … the FCS plugs have been in the market for about 15 years…with multiple entities from Brazil, Argentina, Peru, Austalia and Asia making counterfeit plugs (some good material and many of lesser quality), combine that with info in this same thread (by boardbuilders) questioning if the entire process needs to be done and add in 15 years of occaisional poor installs by established brands and boardbuilders and you’re going get plugs breaking plugs breaking out here and there. Throw in Rocklobster that is motivated to undermine anything FCS and it looks like armageddon.
I’m challenging Rocklobster to a man on man (if you’re in fact a man? - as so far yo seem to impersonate something lesser hiding under your rock) in person in any forum to personally design, build and test anything surf so he can put his own banker’s money where his little hidden keyboard is.
There’s a bounty posted on outting you and your motivation for always bashing FCS and never being called on it.
You can argue about who are the principal equity holders of Surf Hardware, but when you go so far as to bash Ron (and incredible person, partner and friend or any other FCS staff that you don’t even know), then it gets personal. Stooge will be reserved for you when you’re outted.
Here’s the bounty and terms:
Full ID, Photo and History of Rocklobster (AKA Tony) and his hidden agenda to bash FCS without ever providing real support in the same arena.
Compensation: $________ TBD in product fom Surf Hardware …I’ll take suggestions
Here’s my full info to challenge Rocklobster. Step up and be a man, finally… I’ve been public on Sways for years with real email.
Bryant Leach
Age 43
Married, 3 kids
cell 858 229 5698
I’m confused,… this thread began as a novice board builder was asking about FCS fin install advice which did emerge but it ended up here. I chose to build my own boards to relieve tension and to channel my energy… Not to create a situation that has called for a bounty hunter
But I do propose these questions to you guys…
1.I chose FCS plugs because I had FCS fins and it seemed as though they’ve been around as long as the me,so why is so hard to buy parts and equipment from surf hardware AUSTRALIA when you only want to build your own boards or to produce boards on a large scale?(Bryant)…
2.If FCS products are so poor or there are better alternatives why do they still exist, and why have I never had any of the said problems with FCS fins?(Rocklobster)
3.As an alternative to FCS which product would one suggest that doesn’t req expensive set up cost for someone like myself who intends on builing 2 or 3 boards a year?(Rocklobster)
Try Probox. Fits FCS fins and has fore/aft adjustability. Removable inserts allows you to change cant angle. All you need is a router with one bit. FCS requires a few different tools and an exacting install. Good, strong box that goes in clean. Slightly cheaper than FCS.
I’m not bagging on FCS. I think they’re great. Just offering an alternative if you want to try something else.
nadles, I don’t know how long you’ve visted this place before joining (welcome to sways, btw!), but for the past year or so every time there’s a thread about anything FCS, the anonymous poster has gone on a rant. He obviously has some major beef with FCS, and chooses this forum as a place to bad-mouth them. Bryant is just finally calling him out and it happened on your thread.
I hope i didn’t hijack this thread. I just thought my question regarding the improper H-pattern install on my new board fits in nicely here.
Bryant,
Geez buddy you need some serious anger management classes.
Like Ron said about you some time back, you tend to get a little excited when you hit the Mountain Dew.
Why don’t you put 1% of your energy into answering the many questions people post about FCS instead of lurking and trolling Sways just so you can bash me.
You see Bryant, unlike you, I don’t sell surf hardware and therefore people don’t come on Sways with questions or problems about what I am selling them.
But while ever FCS continues to promote and sells their supposed “new” products that are said to be superior design and materials, yet in fact are made inferior to the original stuff that built their reputation on, I will call you to account.
Your anger, threats and aggression only highlight how paranoid FCS has become. If the way you, as the head man for FCS and Eskimo Foam in USA, go about hunting me down to silence me is reflective of the way Surf Hardware is managed, well you have real problems.
Your post it is rather freaky really this one little lobster will stay well hidden from the likes of you, Bryant.
But one thing for sure, you have thrown fuel on the FCS fire and it’s getting rather hot. Try water not MD to cool down Bryant.
Best way to get me is just consume as much lobster as you can, you will know when it’s me cause I will leave a very bad taste in your mouth.
Rocky
AGE: Very crusty
Kids: 27 of the little crawlers
MARRIED: Yep and she is a real Mornay. Man, what a set of feelers she has. WHOOOAA!!
Use FCS. You’ll be fine if properly installed. Likewise ProBox and Futures and O’fishls. All have advantages and disadvantages. If you don’t like them, don’t use them anymore. Ignore the conspiracy theories.
I’m confused,… this thread began as a novice board builder was asking about FCS fin install advice which did emerge but it ended up here. I chose to build my own boards to relieve tension and to channel my energy… Not to create a situation that has called for a bounty hunter
But I do propose these questions to you guys…
1.I chose FCS plugs because I had FCS fins and it seemed as though they’ve been around as long as the me,so why is so hard to buy parts and equipment from surf hardware AUSTRALIA when you only want to build your own boards or to produce boards on a large scale?(Bryant)…
nadles - sorry for the divergence. I had to address Rock’s relentless whining and undermining. I run the US operation and we have no minimums to entry or direct contact, support and relations for any size account (retail or manufacturing) May I suggest that you contact the main office in Mona Vale, NSW and ask for Juston Cooke (Aust Sales Manager), great guy and on top of his team. He’ll work with you to find a solution in your market and clarify their current sales requirements in each market. Please feel free to contact me directly if you need help @ bryant.leach@surfhardware.com I hope we can help.
2.If FCS products are so poor or there are better alternatives why do they still exist, and why have I never had any of the said problems with FCS fins?(Rocklobster) Me too, no problems to date …but I do have a friend that runs over anything and everyone in sight and busts out 2-3 fins (plugs and/or boxes a year) FCS, Fusion, Glass ons, etc
3.As an alternative to FCS which product would one suggest that doesn’t req expensive set up cost for someone like myself who intends on builing 2 or 3 boards a year?(Rocklobster)
Also check out the Fusion Plugs which have a less expensive install tool set (if you don’t already own the one for plugs) and are a little more compatible with one offs and home based building.
Thanks for bring it back to the real problem
Best regards,
Bryant
Thanks mate. I’ll check out what I can find on the web, nadles.
Rock-
I’d like to see you also spend 99% of your time on Sways being productive and reserve that same 1% for FCS bashing and personal stabs at stand up guys like Ron. You crossed the line and it’ll be a long time since you’re forgiven. As for my efforts, we at FCS/Surfhardware USA have phones on all day, email addrsses published, good and responsible sales reps on the ground helping ALL the boardbuilders that have a business relationship with us or want to build one. We have no minimums for boaruilders the US since I’ve been here (2005) and probably for a few years before that. So when you accuse me of not answering every question FCS on Sways, I want to be very clear that my lines are open (phone, cell, email) and it much more efficient for anyone to pick up the phone and call us. If someone is in Aus, Europe, Japan, NZ, etc, etc, we have either staff there or experienced distribution to do the same. If they are less accessible, we work to help out.
If you’re in SoCal, the welcome mat is out for the Bill Thrailkill Design Workshop in SD …come on in, carapace and all.
Cheers
Bryant
No problem…please email me and let me know how it goes
Thanks Bryant for the reply,
Though I am new to these pages and board building there is much I need to learn before I can be a Jedi…
I made contact with Surfhardware in Mona Vale and spoke to one of the guys in sales but he (politely) made too many hoops to jump through for me to buy any of the installation tools.I only ever intended to build 2/3 boards per year and have always found the correct tools help end results but decided to go with out due to the difficulties in starting an account with Surfhardware.
The people sent me out the paperwork to start an account but it was never my intention to go commercial.
Does that fit in to the sales criterea for your US sales team?
I also had someone tell me along my quest that surfhardware doesn’t like to supply guys like me because it can damage the corporate image if I turn out a crappy results using FCS. So I asked If I am only building boards for myself and my 2 boys who else would care? however the responce did not fit the question and I was left wondering… The other problem I encountered was the minimum spend issue per annum within the surfhardware deal.
I don’t want this to sound like a rant although it may read that way but I thank you for your help…nadles
I agree with you Greg (-: Mahalo, Larry
Hi nadles, Please feel free to go to our Website www.ProBoxfinsystems.com and go to info, pick what ever you like and my partner Robin will get your stuff out no PAPER WORK my friend. If their is any questions you would like to ask me,just go to my contact info and I will be happy to help. We at ProBox are excited to have you and your boys join the ProBox Movement. Mahalo,Larry
Hi BCKyle, Thank you for looking at ProBox (-:. In answer to your question about a glass inlay for FCS, you are right it would make it stronger at the top of the install. Adding Glass is the old school way I learned in the 70’s, but has time goes on people create new ways to get the job done faster not always better. But the “H” attached to the deck is key and for that reason to much time would be spend to do Glass. Mahalo,Larry
Try Fiberglass Hawaii in California. They will stick anything you want in the mail next day. Best prices too. Probably the same from their Hawaii location. Its a world wide economy as they say.
As far as the product, I’ve been using them for at least 15 years. I’ve never broken one unless I ran full speed into a rock. Even then, the repair is a piece of cake, since my experience is that half the time the fin snaps with no damage to the board as all. If the box rips out, it is usually with little damage to the surrounding foam.
I can’t compare them to other brands, since I’ve only used FCS.
Back to the original question… Don’t reinforce with mat, just regular cloth. If the concave runs through the tail, I run the patch to where the contour changes. It makes it a little easier to blend in.
nadles-
Sorry for guiding you into a frustrating dead end (or at least long and winding road) …in the US we sell much more openly. Anyone can buy full install kits for both plugs and fusion online or direct iin store via 20+ suppliers from Foam-Ez to Fiberglass Hawaii, Basham’s to several East Coast Distributors AND we’ll sell direct if no one is close to serve you geographically. I would think there’s the same in Aus, but I honestly don’t know every detail there, nor the politics between the professional boardbuilders and the smaller board supply distribution. I do get the sense it’s heaps touchier there. A lot of guys in the US also order extra sets via a local shaper/friend. There’s lots of support on Sways and some great guys here including Larry from Pro-Box and the Lok-Box team across California.
Best wishes
Bryant
Bryant,
One of the accusations Rock Lobster made about your company from way back when he first started posting was that you pushed your weight around and could be industry bullies with your competition or those who you felt were your nemesis. Rock lobster stated way back that he wanted to stay anonymous for just the reason your now showing here. Why is it important for you to know who he is? If what he says holds no water folks will find out. If he steps out of line on swaylocks he will likely be moderated or banned, but he has made specific accusations that have to do with the subject at hand. He could be completely full of it as you insinuate, right on or somewhere in between. Why not simply deal with the accusations or leave it alone?
It is not any worse than many other subjects have been. I don’t think it’s nearly as nasty as some of the old Surf Tech threads used to get.
No need for you to play the victim here. what you have done by placing a bounty on him ( I cannot believe I am even typing the word " bounty" because someone typed something someone else didn’t like on a forum) is proving his point for him. Again…why not simply continue to deal directly with the accusations as Ron did the last time this came up? Or…just ignore him.
You are way out of line on this regardless of what you believe has been said about you, your company or your bros. I know many major companies that would put you out the door with a threat like this on a public forum and on many forums you would be banned for threatening another forum member. I don’t know you personally. Ron speaks highly of you and I will take his word that your a good guy, but the way you have chosen to handle this is just plain out there. I have no problem with you calling Rock Lobster out, if you deal with his accusations. His tone, how relentless he is or any of the actual stuff he brings to the conversation about your company is fair game… but a bounty?
I read his post. As usual, it is not very positive in tone towards you guys, but he was dealing with the question at hand and with actual issues. It is certainly not the first thread or post to repeat things over and over or deal with the same subjects. That is kind of how most forums are. It’s just par the course. Unlike Mike Daniel ( who I have nothing against at all), I did not think his post on this thread came off like a rant. It was direct and certainly had an accusing tone to it, but so what? FCS is the number one fin moulding company with sales and placement around the globe. What is there to fear from some unknown poster on a surfboard related forum?
As for bashing Ron. I think he could have worded that much better, but I think R.L. was trying to say…Ron doesn’t know FCS the way he does. On that…I would have to disagree. Ronny has worked for this company since he got out of school. He is well liked by most everyone I know in the industry. He is no stooge and he is a smart young man. The Ron I know, can take care of himself just fine. Calling him a name is also out of line, but not worthy of something like a bounty.
On the subject of minimums: That damn subject gets confusing as hell and has mixed stories. I have heard it’s $1000 for retailers. …If that is true…Ron and others know my feelings about it, but again, so what if there is a minimum? Find another product. It’s not like we have a shortage of well made fin systems out there.
The bottom line: Many folks like FCS, others don’t, some are indifferent. Others have the right to give their opinions whether they are pro or con on a forum like this. I think it’s unreasonable to ask folks to lay off your company whoever they are if you put your product out to the public for sale. There are worse things than criticism. Many times criticism pays off and become tomorrow’s next improvement.
.02
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