enough said…RED X RULES
Jay, imgine this: you own RED X and you receive a fax one day, an order from somewhere in china and they want to order 3000 units (or widgets, or whatever), with the possibility of similar future orders. what are you going to do? besides, if the niche is attractive enough they’ll be making their own similar gadget with astonishing speed. the internet and a “global economy” where no one sees good guys or bad guys anymore. just buyers and sellers. it’s just getting started, too! “oh shit” is right.>>> enough said…RED X RULES
Jay, imgine this: you own RED X and you receive a fax one day, an order > from somewhere in china and they want to order 3000 units (or widgets, or > whatever), with the possibility of similar future orders. what are you > going to do?>>> besides, if the niche is attractive enough they’ll be making their own > similar gadget with astonishing speed.>>> the internet and a “global economy” where no one sees good guys > or bad guys anymore. just buyers and sellers.>>> it’s just getting started, too! “oh shit” is right. Life is a circle, the earth is a sphere and we are all one family, celebrating mass-produced, inexpensive clones for the new world citizen: “The capabilities of the Cobra factory in Thailand, and Kinetic in Taiwan… have grown to the point where high quality is possible, and the cost of producing boards in the U.S… has become prohibitive. Its all good news…” http://www.americanwindsurfer.com/1999reviews/2000_reviews/sm.html (Do you hear the sound of cascading money? Listen close to home my friends, WE are the real enemy.) Dharmon
yeah, i hear the register loud and clear…as probably do my ‘family’ members in china who were steamrolled in tienamen(?) square, or who are prisoners of conscience. in fact, all they have to do is peer out from between the bars at the KFC, Nike and EDS signs. do they ever wonder what happenned to that bastion of democracy? “it’s all good”? hmmm, i’ll meet you halfway on that one. thanks for your thoughtful post.>>> Life is a circle, the earth is a sphere and we are all one family, > celebrating mass-produced, inexpensive clones for the new world citizen:>>> “The capabilities of the Cobra factory in Thailand, and Kinetic in > Taiwan… have grown to the point where high quality is possible, and the > cost of producing boards in the U.S… has become prohibitive. > Its all good news…”>>> http://www.americanwindsurfer.com/1999reviews/2000_reviews/sm.html>>> (Do you hear the sound of cascading money? Listen close to home my > friends, WE are the real enemy.)>>> Dharmon
Ramon, I am one of the owners of Red X. And I got that phone call yesterday from our distributor partner. And I said “Don’t go there. Just Remember OP.” And the number of boards in discussion far exceeded the number that would end up in Costco.
Tom, well…hats off to you and your partners. anyone who can resist a lucrative deal to adhere to a higher ethical standard is definitely in the minority nowadays. What happened with OP, and how did that weigh on RED X’s decision?>>> Ramon,>>> I am one of the owners of Red X. And I got that phone call yesterday from > our distributor partner. And I said “Don’t go there. Just Remember > OP.” And the number of boards in discussion far exceeded the number > that would end up in Costco.
Tom, well…hats off to you and your partners. anyone who can resist a > lucrative deal to adhere to a higher ethical standard is definitely in the > minority nowadays. What happened with OP, and how did that weigh on RED > X’s decision? Op originally was a small local manufacturer that like most other surf clothing companies sold their product through specialty “Surf Shops”. They gained market share farely rapidly and for a while in the seventies were the “in clothing line”. Just when they got to the point that they had the premere surf market position, they started selling to the major retailers. Their sales went through the roof. But, the specialty “surf shops” dropped them like a hot potatoe. Well the buyers from the majors typically check out whats hot at various different types of “specialty retailers” to see what they want to buy next year. And since the Surf Shops dropped Op, well it wasn’t long after that Op was a use to be. That’s not to say that they are not attempting a come back now with the whole Retro gig. But, it will never be the same. Lesson learned “Don’t sell your soul”.
Op originally was a small local manufacturer that like most other surf > clothing companies sold their product through specialty “Surf > Shops”. They gained market share farely rapidly and for a while in > the seventies were the “in clothing line”. Just when they got to > the point that they had the premere surf market position, they started > selling to the major retailers. Their sales went through the roof. But, > the specialty “surf shops” dropped them like a hot potatoe. Well > the buyers from the majors typically check out whats hot at various > different types of “specialty retailers” to see what they want > to buy next year. And since the Surf Shops dropped Op, well it wasn’t long > after that Op was a use to be. That’s not to say that they are not > attempting a come back now with the whole Retro gig. But, it will never be > the same. Lesson learned “Don’t sell your soul”. Ummm, that’s one way of looking at it. The other is that OP was very savvy, in that instead of relying on a relatively small, cyclical business with surf shops, they managed to crack the big time and do major numbers with the name retailers. Loss of surf shop business was a blip on the spreadsheet. Their downfall was more caused by mismanagement and overall market conditions than anything else.The original crew made theirs and got out. As for “don’t sell your soul,” there’s nothing inherently immoral about making the decision to expand your company, and make money. Sad fact is, in clothing, if you want to be successful, and not just eek out a living, relying on surf shops only isn’t going to get it.
Ummm, that’s one way of looking at it. The other is that OP was very > savvy, in that instead of relying on a relatively small, cyclical business > with surf shops, they managed to crack the big time and do major numbers > with the name retailers. Loss of surf shop business was a blip on the > spreadsheet. Their downfall was more caused by mismanagement and overall > market conditions than anything else.The original crew made theirs and got > out. As for “don’t sell your soul,” there’s nothing inherently > immoral about making the decision to expand your company, and make money. > Sad fact is, in clothing, if you want to be successful, and not just eek > out a living, relying on surf shops only isn’t going to get it. You hit that on the head. I find it too easy for people today to say that a person or company has “sold their soul” regarding their balance sheet or to generalize about a thing they love being accepted beyond their small circle. I like what I like because it works - sell it at Costco sell it out of a cabin in the Dakotas, or on the moon.
My local Costco has boards in two sizes, 6’6" and 6’9". This seems a bit weird to me. Why are they selling shortboards? A random Costco customer has almost zero chance of actually using a shortboard. So to repeat the question, why would someone attempting to sell boards in bulk sell only shortboards?
Ryan: I don’t have a Costco nearby but I knew FedMart, Price Club and just shopped the bankruptcy sale at the local K-Mart which is closing. (1 gallon of acetone for $4.00!). The sufboard buyers look at it this way: they can get more SKU’s in a shipping container of 6’6" surfboards, they fit in the shopping carts pretty well and they can be shoved in the back of an SUV easily by moms. They care as much about how well that board will perform for the average user as they did about the Razor scooter and how well it would jump a curb. TS>>> My local Costco has boards in two sizes, 6’6" and 6’9". This > seems a bit weird to me. Why are they selling shortboards? A random Costco > customer has almost zero chance of actually using a shortboard. So to > repeat the question, why would someone attempting to sell boards in bulk > sell only shortboards?
Ryan:>>> I don’t have a Costco nearby but I knew FedMart, Price Club and just > shopped the bankruptcy sale at the local K-Mart which is closing. (1 > gallon of acetone for $4.00!). The sufboard buyers look at it this way: > they can get more SKU’s in a shipping container of 6’6" surfboards, > they fit in the shopping carts pretty well and they can be shoved in the > back of an SUV easily by moms. They care as much about how well that board > will perform for the average user as they did about the Razor scooter and > how well it would jump a curb.>>> TS Hey tom I am thinking about the 6"9 Costco board for my kid but would like to have +3/4" rocker in the tail and a short Fins Unlimited box in the back. How do I get into contact with the shaper?
Ramon,>>> I am one of the owners of Red X. And I got that phone call yesterday from > our distributor partner. And I said “Don’t go there. Just Remember > OP.” And the number of boards in discussion far exceeded the number > that would end up in Costco. I sat down with Bill Bahne yesterday, one of the BIG THREE manufacturers told FCS to cancel their future orders. The reason, FCS gave the boards credibility as being mainstream.
Do you think for one second that the average soccer mom buying a stick at $299.00 for her 14 year old really gives a shit? Does the average 14 year old really give a shit? If it has three fins and a flip tip nose, he’s down with it.
yeah, i hear the register loud and clear…as probably do my ‘family’ > members in china who were steamrolled in tienamen(?) square, or who are > prisoners of conscience. in fact, all they have to do is peer out from > between the bars at the KFC, Nike and EDS signs. Just the other day China gave awards to “great new buisnessmen of the new economy”. Before long they will be just like us. No need for democracy to have capitalism up and running. Oh yeah, and why the hell would you produce goods of any kind where it’s more expensive to make? It’s capitalism at it’s best. I bet the chineese got one of those shaping machines from hawaii, reverse enginered it, built 10 on their own and are plugging Al Merricks boards. -H
Do you think for one second that the average soccer mom buying a stick at > $299.00 for her 14 year old really gives a shit? Does the average 14 year > old really give a shit? If it has three fins and a flip tip nose, he’s > down with it. He’s down with it, until his friends, who are savy as to what to ride, let him know he doesn’t have a “real” surfboard. It will be his first and only “cobra” board, they are for the entry level surfer. I personally don’t make many boards for first time buyers and have my market geared at the total custom end. The next thing for the retailers to do is, refuse to take them as trade ins on American made boards. This is very similar to the “shop” logos, popular in almost any beach town (Fred’s boards have no value at Roy’s shop) the lack of established name pull is going to play an important role in this senario. Anyway this is how I see it or hope it plays like this!!!
Ummm, that’s one way of looking at it. The other is that OP was very > savvy, in that instead of relying on a relatively small, cyclical business > with surf shops, they managed to crack the big time and do major numbers > with the name retailers. Loss of surf shop business was a blip on the > spreadsheet. Their downfall was more caused by mismanagement and overall > market conditions than anything else.The original crew made theirs and got > out. As for “don’t sell your soul,” there’s nothing inherently > immoral about making the decision to expand your company, and make money. > Sad fact is, in clothing, if you want to be successful, and not just eek > out a living, relying on surf shops only isn’t going to get it. Surfshirt my point is the surfboard mearket is a very limited market. There are only so many miles of coastline. There are only so many quality contours along those coastlines that are accessable to the general public. And further, as we all have seen this past winter there are only so many days that the conditions are right for descent surf. Until there are workable wave pools available in every local region surfing will continue to have limits to how many participants can be supported by so little resources. The market for surf clothing is considerably larger than that of hard goods. This is due to the fact the image can be sold to people in markets without access to the beach. There is a caviot though; this image is cyclical as well. Fads come and go. Op rode the wave of a fad and made big numbers for a short period of time. Then fads changed and Op had lost their core market due to expansion into the mainstream retailers. Yeah the money looked good for a year or two. But, unless you got out at the top, you got screwed. Same as the dot com blip. There were a few lucky ones. But, far more people got burned. It’s kind of like playing the market on speculation vs. getting into a well balanced long term investment strategy. Yeah a few lucky ones get rich quick and move on. But, odds are more people will lose than win. Call me conservative. But, I’m in this deal for the long haul. I would much prefer a slow but steady growth curve than try to maximize my this years numbers at the expense of the next ten or twenty years.
He’s down with it, until his friends, who are savy as to what to ride, let > him know he doesn’t have a “real” surfboard. It will be his > first and only “cobra” board, they are for the entry level > surfer. I personally don’t make many boards for first time buyers and have > my market geared at the total custom end. The next thing for the retailers > to do is, refuse to take them as trade ins on American made boards. This > is very similar to the “shop” logos, popular in almost any beach > town (Fred’s boards have no value at Roy’s shop) the lack of established > name pull is going to play an important role in this senario. Anyway this > is how I see it or hope it plays like this!!! Jim, All this has an old, familiar sound to it… surfing has been there numerous times in the past. That`s right… good luck on the resale value! Dale
There is an all BIC Pro /Am contest @ Secos this weekend. $100.00 entry fee. What does this say about the future?