Just another story of a long saga of FCS failures…
I popped out an fcs plug yesterday while surfing a 1ft mushburger. One of the plugs pulled out (with very little force) and the other did what it was supposed to do - broked the fin at the base. Well, at least it was a clean break and it can still be salvaged.
worth considering …
may not have been the plugs fault .
I know I already posted on this thread on surfermag, but…
That breakage was due to a poor installation. When a plug is bonded to the foam, you should not be surprised if it breaks.
Thanks, I’ll let the professional glasser who did the job know what you think of his work.
In reality, it’s probably part bad installation and part crappy fin system. The fact that it’s a crappy system makes it easier to get a poor installation.
two cents worth…many years of hard surfing I have never broken a plug or a fin from an FCS system.
I popped out an fcs plug yesterday while surfing a 1ft mushburger…
Or it could be due to the fact that you hit the bottom while surfing that 1 ft. mushburger, since 1 ft. waves don’t tend to break in 6 ft. of water but more than likely on the shore or in relatively shallow water.
Repairing the FCS plug is a cheap and easy fix, get on it before the Irene swell hits up there.
This doesnt make things any better, but FCS has new plugs out now and
are made of better material and have a different design. I believe
Kokua recently posted some pics of them. Worth a try wouldn’t you think?
I fully agree! The FCS system is crap, I’ve had a lot of grief from plugs coming out and screwing up the board in the process.
I reckon the whole system is just badly designed, having two separate plugs instead of ONE unit makes it inherently weak.
Also if You examine the plug itself the plastic is way too thin only a couple of millimeters at the thinnest point.
I also suspect the plugs can’t handle cold temps without getting brittle, I’ve had the plugs break in the cold from VERY small knocks…
Also the fin keys wear out OR the screws thread wear out and just in case these parts hold up I’ve also had the actual thread in the plug wear out…
One of my friends had this funny idea that he didn’t really like to put in or take out his fins unless absolutely necessary…just because he’d had also had so much trouble from the threads wearing out!
FCS- Fucking Crap System if You ask me, please take it off the market asap or redesign it completely!
I prefer REDX and also like the 4WFS, had no problems whatsoever with any of these so far…
Howzit joshmosh, Sorry to hear about that but at least it can be fixed really easily. I think Lawless has it right since the way you explain what happened is typical of hitting some head on. We’ve got them on kite boards, tow boards and guns and if they are holding for these boards then 1 ft mush definitly shouldn’t break the system. What I do find a little funny is in the last few days I’ve seen 2 boards with systems other than FCS fail,don’t ask which ones they are since I don’t want to put down any systems integrity. Think about the damage done if you had glassons and hit something, repairing a glass on is a lot more work than replacing a plug.Aloha,Kokua
FCS dudes … wheres that box? Eliminate instalation errors at the manufacterer level.
just curious.
was that a board you shaped yourself and then sent out to a pro glasser? one of your responses indicates so.
i’ve gotta say that i’ve been using and self installing fcs for several years and haven’t had one such failure. i have managed to break off a few fins on some local rocks, but the system worked as advertised. fins broke off at the tabs like they are supposed to and the cups/board was undamaged.
so probably you have installer error. just because the guy is a pro glasser doesn’t mean he didn’t take a shortcut somewhere. heck…we see a lot of folks on here talking about using substitute installation tools, skipping steps in the process…etc.
sorry 'bout your bad luck.
just a general observation about glassons vs removable…
when a surfer knocks a glasson around they get a few cracks along the rovings… this is quite a visual sign of weakness. they then either get it fixed or wait till it comes right out then get it fixed. in that case you never hear moaning about “bloody glassons rararant”.
scenario two… removable fin system takes a knock. unless you can feel a lip around the plug/resin join… you cant see under the glass/foam so you dont know its weak…next couple weeks you do a hard turn or a light clip on the rocks etc… “bloody fin systems… just come out doing a turn etc”. even a perfect install wont solve this problem… however a lot of fcs and other removable system failures are due to poor install too. bottom line is all fins fail or come out if mistreated. mike (kokoa) does a good job educating his clients and they get a great install
Howzit Dave,Thanks for the compliment. The thing I hate about repairing glass ons is that 90% of the time the glass under the fin is ruined and the foam gets fractured. Now you have to repair the cracked foam, maybe do some Q-sel and reglass the area, remove old glass from fin and then start the process of putting the fin back on. A lot of work and time involved. Geez I love fin systems.Aloha,Kokua
Have to agree with Dave, a lot of times that these systems fail, they were previously weakened by some sort of hit to the fins. If you have a system, you should inspect it once in a while with your eyes and fingers. One tell tale sign is a salt ring around the plugs about a half hour after you get out of the water. Once dried out, you can then cap it with glass and that usually does the trick. Kokua, something i’ve noticed in the last few years with broken glass- ons is they all seem to have delam under the fin even when it wasn’t that severe of a hit. Been fixing boards in so cal going on 15 years, and have researched this phenomenom extensively. Here’s what i’ve determined -
#1 Foam is weaker these days
#2 Many glassers don’t apply small football fin patches down on the foam under their layer of lam.
#3 Almost all shops here are using hot glue to tack on their fins. Never gets completely hard, and regardless of the roving or amount of roving (unless you use a godawful ton of it) the fin believe it or not wiggles slightly on every turn. As it wiggles it’s trying to pull the glass up from the foam. Every time you surf the fins get closer to failure. Then one day it pops loose. Fairly obvious when the fin is still attached, but wiggling due to delam underneath. They used to crack but still actually feel solid somewhat. In the old days fins just popped off clean if you nailed them, leaving the lam solid underneath. You ground it flat, refoiled the fin or replaced it if it was lost, and re-applied the fin - simple - The lam resin hardens. Actually becomes more and more brittle with time. You get a good hit to the fin and it cracks, or comes completely off. The foundation lamination under the fins base took one shot and survived. When it gets worked at and worked at over time…it starts pulling stuff apart.
Say nay to hot glue! Not worth the corner cut. That being said i love fin systems too!
Just another story of a long saga of FCS failures…
I popped out an fcs plug yesterday while surfing a 1ft mushburger. One of the plugs pulled out (with very little force) and the other did what it was supposed to do - broked the fin at the base. Well, at least it was a clean break and it can still be salvaged.
so, you’re riding one foot slop…and your fins pop out? One breaks off at the plug, the other breaks other plug itself.
Come on man, give us the real story.
=)
Interesting information Loxbox. I do have a question about the hot glue. Here’s what i’ve been doing :
Two very small dabs of hot glue to hold the fin in place on the shapers marks. Next tape the fin to my piece of wood that has the proper angle on it that I want. Now with a gloved finger go and push lam resin all around the fin to board connection fill any gap under the fin. After that cures glass on fin with 6 oz. glass.
Go or no go ?
Thanks for your input.
Ray
Howzit Lokbox, You hit the nail on the head. I use both hot glue and resin to set my glass ons and also add the extra patch with a baste over it. You know a lot of people don’t realize the foam is fractured when they fix a glass on so it’s like they’re building a house on a earth quake fault line and the fix is weak. I’m not so sure that this even helps when you figure if the fin gets hit hard enough to pull the glass up( which would even happen no matter how good the fin is attached) it’s going to affect the foam underneath. One possible way to get around it but it’s not to conventional is to hotcoat, then sand and then put fins on. I’ve done this a couple of time for a test and the fins seem to break away cleaner and don’t lift the glass. Might not bond quite as well to the bottom but will hold fine until that big hit and should make for an easier repair.Aloha,Kokua
…I set only with resin…,when hard enough, I put the roving and the patches…so, in this simple way, when you hit the fin, you can pull it clean…I never damage the foam in my boards…the only problem is when you hit the fin in a hard way and you produce a dent under the fin…
I think the only two things wrong with the design of the FCS plugs are the very little material they have on the sides and that they require a good install not to break. If the plug is correctly installed, it should have a 1/8" or so of chopped glass filled resin ouround it’s weakes point. I’ve had FCS plugs break that obviously was installed incorrectly(or atleast poorly) by a big surfboard brand out of AUS that shall remain nameless. I’ve NEVER had any plugs I’ve installed correctly break(except for the one where I didn’t dry out the foam properly, that thing didn’t bond well). And it does get damn cold around here. Those thread that wear out, when did you last rinse them and lubricate them? Because mine get’s filled with sand and salt crystals real quickly. Those keys are crap though(either that or they are designed to give before the thread give), use a proper hexkey instead.
regards,
Håvard