I think this topic has probably come up, but I searched and searched on here with no success.
How do you guys feel about glassing a shortboard with only one layer of glass of 4 oz on the top? I know it would be weaker than a normal board with 2 layers, but it would probably feel a lot livelier. Ive never even gotten a foot indent on a board, even when I only had one board for 2 years… this is why I think I could get away with it. I know I could switch to epoxy, but my local supplier only has poly, and I dont usually like epoxy boards. My reasoning is that because I tend to be pretty light footed the boards would still last a decent amount of time, and I would end up saving 30 or 40 $ a board
But let me know if this is ridiculous, and if I glass it that light it will break within a week. I’d also really appreciate any experience anyone has with lighter glass schedules without switching to epoxy. I think that breaking and shaping a new board every 4 or 5 months would be fun, and would make me a better shaper.
How big are you? How much do you weigh? Where do you surf?
I started fixing boards for the kid next door when he was 13.....When he was 16 I started fixing snapped shortboards...poly boards with 4oz bottom and 2x4 tops...some boards only 3 days old...and when I did a 2# EPS fish for the kid with 6 bottom and 2x6 top he snapped that one too! Carlsbad California. Some kids charge hard...some kids get too big too fast....close out tubes and big floaters break boards. Kid is now mid 20's....buys boards on craigs list and rides them until they die...I'm older and light footed and I don't charge any more....1x4 deck? No way...not even on old man boards
Very weak and just a throw away. I would go with a 4 bot and a 1 x 2/3 patch on top. The best pros like throw aways but they don’t buy them. Ya want to save weight go with glass ons and save the the deck.
I’m 5’11, 145lbs, and surf at pointbreaks in Rhode Island. Boards here usually break from hitting rocks, not lips, so the bottom of the board is in more peril than the deck. I break most boards getting in and out of the water or duckdiving into a rock.
I guess my thought was, I’d rather make myself boards that feel electric and perfect than boards that feel good and last a few years. But it doesn’t sound like it would be worth it.
I didnt know that glass ons saved weight. I would have to learn how to glass on fins, but I have a set of Matt Kechle glass ons a friend gave me that I have yet to use. I just have no idea how to do glass-ons, or I would put them on the board I just finished thats getting FCS cups tomorrow. Maybe I’ll try a deck patch next time… I’ve hard about some D clot that some of the big names are using now, and only using a single layer of that on the deck. I’m not sure if thats widely available or even that much stronger, but it’s what got me thinking.
I could probably save some weight by being a better glasser too, my 6’0 came out to about 6.2 lbs before sanding the hotcoat and adding fincups.
Hm. I actually use FCS over futures becaus if you break out a future it can rip out a big patch of glass. I have to do fcs on this one, because I have the shop time reserved (I don’t have the drill bits). But I’ll definitely do glass ons on my next board, I thought they would add weight because the fins are made out of fiberglass
Al merick ul glass job fer pros is usually 4oz bottom and top, super light and livley but also super weak and breakable. In a month the board will look like a golf ball and leak like a hole in a bucket, not to mention leash wrap damage. But you’ll do bigger airs…
The pros ride single 4oz decks with little foot patches, then their manufacturers put boards with at least twice as much e-glass on the decks in the racks and tell you that they ride the same? The truth is they don't have near the same feel, but they don't want you to figure that out...
Imagine if it surfed inreal, insane, the best board you've ever surfed. Then imagine how bummed you'll be when it snaps duckdiving a 2' wave, or even just landing wrong in a wipeout, or when it looks like a golf ball on the 8th surf, or it creases or .............
True, I would be bummed. But if the main reason it surfed so good is it was so lightly glassed, then its repeatable. What about 1 x 6oz? Would that be any stronger than 1 x 4oz, or lighter than 2 x 4oz
Sure… but then you have more glass then you need in parts you don’t need it. Go with 4oz full lam and either foot patches or a 4oz 3/4 lam on top, as suggested. You can even cut the 3/4 patch like a deck inlay to save a few oz, but you compromise the strength of the rails, which take the most beating out of the water.
Or you can throw out the 50 year old tech and enter the world of modern fibers and lamination. Then you can build something that feels even better and has a much higher strength-to-weight ratio.
Strange if ya want to get the best strength to weight ratio out of a poly get yourself some D cloth and enough E cloth to do your patch work.
Glass the bottom in D. Then cut a 2/3 reverse V deck patch out of E wrapping the rail to the bottom edge. Hold your shears flat to the bottom and slide along cutting your patch to allow it to wrap around the rail not half the way around the rail. The reason to not cut along the apex of the rail is it becomes a weak point on the rail. The more you can wrap the rail the stronger.
One of my personal tricks is a triple wrap layup. We use to glass guns like this. Glass the patch on the deck wraping the lap around then prep do the bottom and then the deck again. Tree stage glassing is much stronger and you can get a tight glass job one step at a time. Not a good production way but my personal LB and eps short boards it’s the only way. I haven’t broke a board in decades that I glassed.
The one thing I never could understand is why so many glasser cut the patch on the apex of the rail when you can wrap the rail making it at least 50% stronger.
As far as 6 ounce E holds more resin then a layer of D and E 4 ounce. You can pull D much tighter then E . When E patch work is wrap or layered over with D you can pull even more resin out of your lam then straight E. One word about D its a little harder to work with.
I spoke with my shaper/boardbuilder/supplier this weekend when I went to put these finplugs in. Interestingly, he told me that he makes himself a 1x4oz board every once in a while, and he always loves them. In his experience, they break or crease about a foot in from the nose, because that’s the part of the board that is stressed and flexed the most, especially when dropping in. So I might just do a patch from the nose down to the transition of the foil.
@ Sano and girvin, I will see what is available near me.
You never used Hexcel Direct E flat weave finished like warp. The finish makes it slippery slides around on the e. The strands will fall off if look at them. Its stronger then E yet not as strong as S and lays so flat leaving very little clean up in prep. Holds less resin gives ya a gloss like hoatcoat because it has a smooth finish after lam. It is tricky the first few times but D bot and a D over S makes a great glass job.
Rusty has used it for a decade or more. You can read up on Hexcel.com
glassing for almost a decade and I’m still learning this stuff… I’ve used warp glass, direct sized, e glass, s glass… from Hexcel, JBS, Aerialite, Clark/Shw – so many things to try… And you use the D on top, sounds logical…Will try to find some to check it out. I still can’t quite wrap my head around your description “Direct E flat weave finished like warp”… I have used warp glass with more/heavier threads in the warp direction than weft which is nice and strong but tends to be stiff, at least the stuff I’ve gotten. I’ve used direct sized (working my way thru a roll now) and its nice handling & drapes well but the strands do fall out easy and it tends to shred unless using sharp shears…I have NOT used any flat weave so maybe that’s the key difference? but looking at the hexcel catalog its fabrics are listed as “leno” “4H” “modified plain” not “flat”? is there a style number and/or particular finish type (f81 or RWG or clear?) I should hunt down? Searching for “D glass” is not finding me anything even on Hexcel.com…they list these in a data sheet:
Styles for surfboard and recreation markets:
1522 4 oz E-Glass
1579 4 oz Warp E-Glass
7533 6 oz E-Glass
7580 6 oz Warp E-Glass
7532 7.5 oz for Fins
1522RWG 4 oz Direct E-Glass
7533RWG 6 oz Direct E-Glass
Thanks again for the hint, always nice to learn something new.