very enjoyable conversation guys …tom im stoked to think that a guy like you who actually understands fins is in the bussiness of making them…i was impressed with fact you answered every comment of mine with the specific information and stuck to the subject not a marketing blurb…your the sorta guy i could work with. unlike most guys who stand there with there mouth open,and then come back with a prerecorded statement… i found it interesting that some of the failings of thrusters that others have observed, have lead them to solutions to overcome some of the shortcomings… blakestah …after thinking about your comments today ,the ones about reducing the size of the side fins for big waves ,it seems a perfectly logical way to go…its the simplest way of reducing lift (the overall effect of the side fins).i starting thinking about the sort of waves that set up would work well in, solid size ,fast and down the line… my way of going about big wave performance ,was a make the thruster work at all cost mentality…more toe,less cant ,camber back,20-80 side fin foils,camber forward thicker tail fin,my likes in a big wave board are still very performance oriented, some comments tom made, made me realise exactly why my boards have evolved this way " thrusters are made to turn " “made to go from rail to rail " " made for controled redirections close to the power zone”… even tho those comments are not new to me ,it just emphasises the personal influence in board design ,the shapers own likes in a board will lead him down certain design paths . being a younger shaper myself ,my own surfing likes and dislikes still come out very strongly in my boards for customers…it suddenly hit me … a comment by an older shaper to me more than 10 years ago …he said "once you stop surfing you start shaping boards for other people "…it was like a riddle that i only just worked out… blakestah i can see your concerns on not wanting to change toe in because of the fact you need more angle of attck before your side fins kick in thus making your tail fin more prone to stalling .my way of dealing with that problem was thicker centre fin and flex bias side fins…that way even when the tail fin is getting real heavy angles put on it ,its still driving you forward,and by having my side fins not bend as much when you load the flat side but bend a little more when you load the foiled side it helps compensate for the extra toe in when going straight along with the 20-80 foils as well, but that extra toe gives more hold when your right on your rail ,i have this strong feeling the only thing that lead us to different solutions was our own surfing likes …hanging out at swaylocks has given way more insight into other peoples surfing likes ,even in just the week or so i been here … tom ive also been making some real stiff 12 mm thick carbon fins …they are totally sick in up to 6’waves ,60 grams per set and they float…they can only be made in a vacumn mold …i been making them since 97 all set fins but lately i been gettin requests to do them for boxes so im gonna have a go at doing a futures box set …you guys may already be working with real light stuff ,if your not we should confer, regards BERT
Bert, I’m always happy to enter into an intellectual discussion on design theory. The internet is an incredible venue for bringing together people of similar interests. And, each time we exchange theories, we each come away with a better understanding of how each parameter affects the outcome. Our company is a custom plastic injection molding company. The medium we work in is best for replicating proven designs. We are constantly looking for refinements and innovations that we can help bring to market. Besides making Red X fins, we also make leash connector components, soft surfboard fins, fishing accessories, RV accessories and medical components. One of the medical projects we are currently working on will knock sixty hours of lab work down to less than one to determine the cancerous cell count in blood samples. We rely upon guys like you, Halcyon, Herb, Maurice Cole, Timmy Patterson, Al Merrick and numerous other shapers to R&D new designs that we can bring to the general public. We do have a source for resin transfer molded cored fins. I’d be very interested in working with any designer that brings us ideas that will help move the design evolution forward. One project I have planned is to make a fin root and spline that any foil can be shaped and glassed over. Currently, some of the design elements that make our attachment method as base secure as possible, also make it difficult for fin designers to make proto-types to fit it. Our root has a taper that mates to the taper in our boxes and we mold the side fins at 4 degrees off vertical. I realize that it’s much easier to make a Future root. But, we were considering performance as our number one issue and ease of manufacturing the fins was down the list of priorities. Hopefully we can work together in the near future. If you have any ideas you would like to develop further, we’d be happy to enter into a confidentiality agreement to ensure your rights to your intellectual property. John Adrian is our distributor in Australia. If you need anything from us, I’m sure we can arrange it through John or Frosty. Thanks for the discussion, Tom
Dave, I would love to see one. I made several prototypes, and asked expert surfers where the fin failed for them in performance, and I did make some non-obvious alterations on what could be considered a simple rotating single fin. The fin has limits built in, and does not have any tail wobble when you go straight and fast. It is literally just like a rigid single fin when paddling and the early phase of making a drop. But it releases at a hard enough angle of attack to generate drive. Anyway, I am certainly interested in what is out there, I did a pretty thorough search of existing IP to ensure that no one had patented what we did, but there are lots of other patented rotating fin designs. And I have yet to actually see any implementations other than my own (but Herb is helping me with that). I am quite sure mine can be adapted to a three fin design, although as yet I am unsure there is a real performance advantage to that. http://www.blakestah.com/fins/
…Got the Waltie boxed up w/ stickers and an old business card,but no instructions,I’ll keep looking for them today. …Try the SCs and MVG I’m sending you as well,Thanks and I’ll let you know whats/hows on you fin system.I plan on building a 6’-? round tail like the Bradshaws that Buttons rode in the late 70s…of course with some minor updates.Herb
I’m sending you a little design guide. But, I am sure you will build whatever you think is best. It is easy to look at the rotating single and think “single fin hull”, and you end up with soft rails and rolled vee in the tail that totally screw the actions of the fin up. I recommend a flat tail, rounded pin (or squash or squared off), down rails in back, and enough rocker in the rear for a thruster. The directional control is strongly provided by the fin. The hull from the fin forward can be vee or concave or double, they will all work with different ride characteristics. The fin will re-direct water flow across different points in the tail, and this works best with a flat tail (not to mention flat tails are the fastest). Hope you enjoy it, look forward to hearing about it. http://www.blakestah.com/fins/
Hi There, I would like to know more about your fin system - how much are they? it looks great! I own a business manufacturing specialty surf gear and other composite liesure sports equipment and this looks like a great product - please tell me more! Do you have any testimonials? do you ship to australia? do you need an australian distributor? cheers, steve eagle
This is mostly covered at the link below. Currently, any US shaper that does a reasonable volume can have a sample for testing. To anyone else $75/unit, which includes a fin and finbox. There are about a dozen units out for testing, the first “outside” testimonials should come in the next few weeks. We did quite a bit of testing here before sending them to others, the summary of the expert rider results is on the web page below. I am not shipping to Australia yet, I expect to initiate this with the next production round. For any further questions that relate to sales/distribution, email is best, email blakestah AT blakestah DOT com. http://www.blakestah.com/fins/
Word!