fin moulding with epoxy???????

General Discussion
1

hey guys i made this mould late last year to copy a fin for a trip to morocco. i was planning on using it in my new probox quad setup.

i took it out in shoulder high right point break setup in the rear boxes with no cant. it was awesome. however after a few hours i was catching a wave in to shore when it started feeling really jittery, at first i thought it was just a rip but on turning the board over id found id lost the fin! doh. i decided to surf sans fins for a few which was interesting!

now im thinking of making it in epoxy to improve the stregnth of the tabs.

any ideas how i can avoid exotherm issues?

heres the mould…

and heres the last one in the board

2

layers and layers of glass

maybe do partial pours

???

dry ice around it !!!

3
Quote:

now im thinking of making it in epoxy to improve the stregnth of the tabs. Are you talking solid epoxy…as in no fibers? Cant imagine but I wanted to be sure. Personaly if I were to do that fin in epoxy, I’d cut up a bunch of carbon roving and mash it into the “wing”, then put carbon lams in the body…but thats just me. If you wanna go solid try a high durometer urethane from these guys: http://www.bjbenterprises.com/

4

Benny1 had a good thread on this.

Got to run.

6
Quote:

get a life

Couldn’t agree more. If you were really true to swaylocks, this thread would contain a detailed photo step-by-step of how you made the mold to begin with, along with materials lists and costs.

I don’t think it’s theivery at all, I think this is exactly the do-it-yerselfedness that makes swaylocks so great. Now, if you were figuring out how to manufacture them in China so you could make a bunch of cash on them, then that’s a different thing… But molding a copy so you can have a matched set of a really f-ing expensive fin you already bought once, I don’t see a problem with that. Actually, I probably shouldn’t even have responded to darkie’s post, but at the risk of derailing this thread I felt like responding.

On topic, I think that lots of carbon would be the way to go, glass fibers if nothing else. The way I’d try it would be to wet out the roving and put it into the mold, then fill the mold the rest of the way with resin lightly mixed with milled glass fibers. Then put the whole mold into a pressurized (or would vacuum work better?) tank to drive the bubbles out of the mold/resin. Use slow hardener to minimize exotherm, then postcure at high temp after the resin sets.

7

very cool project… you need to ad fibers as others have suggested, as far as exotherm use a really slow epoxy and you shouldn’t have a problem…

8

I don’t think it’s theivery at all, I think this is exactly the do-it-yerselfedness that makes swaylocks

well if you think blatantly coping a patened item & posting how on sways is good

well dont come to aus & do it

if the guy would have redisigned the fin & put the time in to prove it worked

& learnt to make &produce a high quality fin then he could proudly post it here

this is john harris fin &he has devoted a whole lot of time&efort into this project

i for one do not agree whith this theft

nor do i agree on scaning a nother shapers board &repoducing it but most do it

not me

darker than dark &geting darker

9

hello surfingdog

well now i cant really judge cuz i molded and fcs fin once

but ive never made a fin with the mold cuz i relized it was unethical

if you spent a bit of time on this site

you would know that john harris ( the desiger of this fin)is a great guy and a battling aussie shaper

that deserves better then to someone wave a shitty stick in his face

i think your probably young and want to show some cool molding stuff you learnt so i understand

but i think you should apologize and stop stealing johns fin design

or at least pm him and ask his permission

either that or your just a trolling shit stirring prick

if it was a paul jensen foil or somethin,

half the yanks on the site would have threatend you with death by now

10

The guy made one fin because the one that he bought broke. I don’t think he is selling them.

There is nothing wrong with that.

11

anyway like i said i did it myself but never made a fin in the end

id rather foil one myself or get jonn to make me one

theres a thread still on this page

im sure an apoogly would suffice

and all will be sweet

i cant see why anyone should try and justify it

that only makes it worse

just admit the mistake

learn

and move on

12

I didn’t see anyone jumping on lpcdefg’s ass when he made a mold from a chinese-made board so he could copy it in hollow-carbon fiber. And that thread went on for like 6 pages, nobody questioned that action.

Don’t tell me the subject of intellectual property is dependent on the level of respect you have for the person being copied?

I understand that there is a qualitative difference between the R&D that went into this fin and what went into the board that was molded, but if one is going to be a defender of designer’s rights, one has to be consistent. It is either wrong or right, not both depending on whose work is being copied and for what reason.

Also, by not reverse-engineering the construction of the original fin and attempting to replicate it as precisely as possible, all he’s done is copy the shape. That’s like making a perfect mold of a tufflite Flyer, then filling it with canned expanding foam and glassing it with bondo. It is representative of the original, but certainly not a “copy”.

Really, unless you see ads for knock-offs on swaybay next week, why not cut the guy some slack? I think it’s a pretty good solution, well executed. Like I said, I’d like to see a how-to.

Maybe in the how-to he could take the mold from some chinese plastic fins so nobody here would find it offensive.

13
Quote:

I didn’t see anyone jumping on lpcdefg’s ass when he made a mold from a chinese-made board so he could copy it in hollow-carbon fiber. And that thread went on for like 6 pages, nobody questioned that action.

well actually i didnt think much of him either

and said as much on page one

first he boasted that paul jensens were to heavy then copied some hunk a junk with a twist in the rocker

and it came out like 8 pounds

Quote:

Don’t tell me the subject of intellectual property is dependent on the level of respect you have for the person being copied?

I understand that there is a qualitative difference between the R&D that went into this fin and what went into the board that was molded, but if one is going to be a defender of designer’s rights, one has to be consistent. It is either wrong or right, not both depending on whose work is being copied and for what reason.

no lifes not like that

life isnt about absolutes

it is full of hypocrisy and inconsistencies

such is life

i dont have to be consistent

there doesnt have to extreme views or sides

there can be what we call a reasonable middle ground

johns on my team

im a team player

i couldnt give a hoot what happens to the enemy

blood is thicker then water the saying goes

btw

im not out to cut his head off

im just asking that he show respect where respect is due

and not encourage people to copy other peoples lifes work or at least show some restraint

its a lesson ive learnt and i feel better about my self

i cant understand you guys over in merica

man you have this crazy legal system that just is over the top

sue him, sue her ,get all his money

paranoid patent this patent that

money money money money

insure this insure that

PJensens suing thread was just a perfect example of what a weird and convoluted legal system you have

what i dont get is you build all these walls and systems to protect your rights

but all the while they are being removed

and when someones rights are obviously violated under patent law

your okay with that

and get upset when someone presents a simple little concept we call " the honesty sytem"

and suggests a little restraint

14

Well said Shwuz…

Every builder here has “copied” someones design at some point in their life…Everyone !

I come here to get surfboard building insight that I can apply to kite surfboards…

I’ve invented neither , but I adapt design elements from others into my work…

I truly respect the “pro” builder who graciously throws out the information that most of us here gobble up…

  Never been to keen on those who protect their secrets as if they were earth shattering discoveries....

Kiterider…

15

soory that was BS

i take it back

16

Well, I do agree that a PM to ask permission before making a copy would have been appropriate in this case.

But I thought that the spirit in which it was undertaken was worthy of some leeway. Maybe a PM to the original poster would have been a good start, but the open hostility that came from darkness is what touched my nerve. If this is a place where we are supposed to treat each other with respect, that that should go doubly when addressing actions of others you find questionable.

I’ve never molded a fin, either. Probably wouldn’t, as I’ve enjoyed foiling my own. I wouldn’t mind learning the process, however.

On the other hand, I’ve never had an original thought about surf design in my whole life. Many things I do I do with the blessing of the original designer; making bonzers, compsands, etc… Many things I’ve just picked up here and there and never gave a second thought to who came up with them to begin with. Now, none of that is as focused and intentional as trying to copy the shape of a fin, but I think you have to look at the spirit in which things are done.

Again, he wasn’t trying to set up a factory in china. He probably wouldn’t even have bought a second red-tip fin for the experiment, so it isn’t as if he were taking away money that would otherwise have gone to Jon. He just wanted to make a half-decent copy of a fin he enjoyed without dropping another $60 on a fin.

You’re right, morality is ambigiuous… And I guess you are being intellectually honest to say that you only care about this case because the designer is your bro, paul. I have to respect that kind of forthrightness. A lot of people wouldn’t be able to self-analyze deep enough to recognize the hypocrisy that we ALL display to varying degrees and in varying amounts.

But I’ve seen lots of morally questionable borrowing of ideas here and otherwise, and I guess it just irritates me when it is sometimes found objectionable and sometimes no, depending on who is being “ripped off”.

17

I did’nt sign up to Sway’s to insult anyone, Nor be insulted…

I’m NOT American, not that that has any bearing on anything…

I wouldn’t wipe my ass with anyones flag or a printed “copy” of it…

I’ve seen your boards on here and I particularily liked the 5 finned balsa on top, airex bottomed project, don’t make me loose respect…

I just “squeezed” in a quad set of 1/2" deep future boxes on 1" thick core-cell 5’-4"…

There was no room to spare and I even had to sand the boxes down bit to fit the depth…

I logged back on Sways to further my research when I saw this thread…

People here don’t generally talk to each other this way,Do they???

Kiterider…:slight_smile:

18

I’m glad to see the degree to which you’ll go to get your bros’ backs, paul.

I’m honored to be in those ranks.

19

darkerside has his reasons

small guys like john and the rest are facing a grim reality with imports and shaping machines

i was trying to offer some middle ground

20

i didnt insult you

i offerd an extreme version of your logic

but anyway i regret it now cuz i knew it would be misunderstood