No, it’s not the Poop Scoop Hoop, that Roy touts, but a design that few ‘‘modern’’ surfers have experienced. A single fin.
Rumor has it that some high performance surfers, and designers are re-exploring the single, and ‘‘discovering’’ previously unexperienced levels of SPEED. Who knew, eh? Seems about time for thick foiled singles to re-emerge, and be exploited, again, for thier speed, and DRIVE. (a topic dear to the hearts of many who post and lurk here.) Any of you fellows out there sniffing around this new concept? If not, you should. It’s an eye opener. Please respond with your EXPERIENCES, as opposed to your theories. Thank you.
I picked up a copy of my favorite longboard a few weeks ago. The board is a 9’2" Brewer performance noserider. It was going off down the street, so I started getting the board ready for action. I’d always surfed it as a 2+1 with a smallish center fin - usually a 7" cutaway pushed up almost to the front of the box, and 3-1/2" sidebites. After I stuck the center fin in, I realized I didn’t bring Futures sidebites - what the board was set up for. I decided to try it as a single.
Man what a blast! It doesn’t want to smack off the lip like it does with the sidebites, but it’s much more graceful and fluid. I can really dig in and turn off the rails, or I can just change the direction I’m facing - lazy susan style.
I thought I’d just ride the board set up like this for a few sessions, then go back to my regular setup. I figured the small single fin would be fun on slow moving pointbreaks, but It would just wash out when the waves got juicier. After a few times… my desire to put the sidebites in was fading. Three weeks and a bunch of days later… I have no desire to put the sidebites back.
I’ve had this setup in head-and-a-half OB when it was steep and fast. I never felt compromised by my board. The tail is noticably looser, that’s for sure. I got a little sketchy trying to smack the lip - the sidebites would have made a noticable difference. Getting vertical off the bottom was no problem. Turning off the top was no problem. Speed was no problem… I went faster than I did when I used the sidebites… and I was going fast enough then. Sorry I don’t have GPS readings.
like I said it in past threads, I surfed a 6 3 performance contemporary shape with a single fin + stabilizer behind (in line) for 3 years or so
perfectly for steep waves or faster beachbreaks tubes
I think the board outline, the tail rocker and the fin size are the secrets, cause normally the people think in those 70 s boards, that perform very good in larger surf, but not so good (for the average rider) in normal conditions
–a couple of weeks ago I posted in the resources, a new one for a customer.
for my first board build i really wanted a quad…then i got to thinking…if this thing turns out crappy (shape, glass, fin position) ill be pissed…so i went with a cheaper and easier alternative…single fin! i love my single fin…so it doesnt turn like my thrusters…but it is a 5’10" wave magnet…i find myself catching more waves than a lot of the longboarders around me and i can really pump it down the line…i want to make another and another and another!
Fin/wing theory has had it for many yeats that a broad softened leading edge will function with less stalling at a higher angle of a attack than a narrow thinned out one.
Fin thickness to horizontal and vertical cord ratio has always been critical to fin performance. There is exhaustive theoretical work on this. Thankfully the surfboard industry has really begun to access how fins perform.
Anyone who wants to know what makes fins and or boards really work should look at learning a little about fluid mechanics: nautical and areodynamic archetectural theroy drive surfboard fin developement.
It is refreshing to see that fins drawing more attention in the scope of surfboard performance. Greenough and Curtis Hesselgrave http://www.drake-windsurfing.com/curtis.htm have been on the leading edge for sometime.
Bill, “New” is a poorly choosen word IMHO.
I grant you that it’s unfortunate that fins have be much more about production than performance for a long long time.
For my part getting regular reports from surfers on how how eye opening more effective fin performance is most encouraging. I made that first thick single fin about 35 years ago. It’s a foam core thing on an 8’3" Freeline that’s off in the corner waiting for anyone to take it out and rip.
When it’all said and done I’m happy to be painting in an edge of the fin performance picture. Singles with a full foil surely have their place in surfboard performance picture. If you want smooth immediate responce from a single it’s certainly worth trying.
At what point does a fin become too thick, and start to become a drag on the board? It sounds like 3/4" is about as thick as most people go when making thick fins. Would a heavily foiled 1" or 1.5" fin push the concept too far?
Had two; the 7 and the 9 (something?). I unloaded the 9 on somebody on Swaylocks back in 2000 something. I got them because I was just too curious. (I get that way sometimes.)
Here’s my take.
They store up a little too much energy under high stress, like during a powerful bottom turn, and then release at the wrong moment - your board literally whips around in reaction to the fin unloading - its kind of freakish. As for the rest of it, I guess they worked well enough, possible a touch more tracking, which I wasn’t really looking for.
Given Harbor continues to sell them, my guess is that others have found them more useful.
Fin Flex
In general, I’m not big on too much flex in a fin – fins when brought to bare, should get in the way, and stay in the way, that’s what fins do. A small amount of give is inevitable, but as design characteristic, I would tend to minimize it. But as always, opinions differ.
Bill, after weeks away from Swaylocks the second thing you do is post a derogatory statement about my fins, and that’s after I made a friendly ‘welcome back’ post to you. . . . what’s your problem ?
Quote:
but a design that few ‘‘modern’’ surfers have experienced. A single fin.
Rumor has it that some high performance surfers, and designers are re-exploring the single, and ‘‘discovering’’ previously unexperienced levels of SPEED. Who knew, eh? Seems about time for thick foiled singles to re-emerge, and be exploited, again, for thier speed, and DRIVE. (a topic dear to the hearts of many who post and lurk here.) Any of you fellows out there sniffing around this new concept? If not, you should. It’s an eye opener. Please respond with your EXPERIENCES, as opposed to your theories. Thank you.
Yeah thick foiled singles are not new we have always been intio them. Our standard single fin panels are 3/4" and 1" thick
If you want to talk about speed you had better back it up with some figures though, high performance needs to be quantified.
Re your tunnel comment: We have tested pairs of identical boards, both with thick foiled singles, one with a tunnel, one without. . . the tunnel and single combination wins hands down in terms of speed, drive, and control.
Now be a good boy and cut the derogatory stuff, I don’t appreciate you calling our fins ‘poop scoops’. . . . I have nothing against you Bill, so why the bad vibe, how about we just be polite to each other ?
The way the Harbour HP fin responds on a powerful bottom turn is just what I like about it. I love the projection you get as the fin unloads. I do not find that it is at the “wrong time”.
I am pretty sure they revised the fin well after you tried it and made it stiffer because heavier surfers were overpowering it.
As you say, some like flex, some don’t. To me, the fin has definite advantages and no downside that I have ever found.
Hey Senor Casey, that fin you unloaded, you mean THIS one? It’s 9.5 inches, actually.
I had similar outcomes to yours, could never quite get that dialed-in feeling with this fin… maybe I didn’t use it on the correct board.
If anyone else wants it, I’m willing to part with it now, just make me a semi-reasonable offer (25 bucks?) and it’s yours… its got the usual little scratches and nicks but very rideable.
Did someone say thick single fin. I had Rich make me a big old thick (almost 3/4 of an inch thick) foam core fin. It is like 11 to 12 inches long and I put it on my 11’6 nose rider. I could tell any differance between it and the same size same shape fin that was just thinner. End of story no I enjoyed how the fin looked so I left it on that board, a few weeks back I put it on a new nose rider that I had gotten that was 11’ long and it made this board come to life, the board was much looser then it was with the thinner fin and the thicker fin seemed to give me more control of the board.
Had a sort of “hull” (6’4" X 20-1/2) years ago. Built w/ very thick foiled, rigid big, keelish fin. No flex, close to 3/4 inch thick. Eventually cut off fin and put in long box and more standard hull type flex fin. Boards top speed was reduced a bit maybe but gained hugely in terms of that twangy spring loaded leap out of turns. Overall more fun to ride. Long ago though and no template comparison.
No, it’s not the Poop Scoop Hoop, that Roy touts, but a design that few ‘‘modern’’ surfers have experienced. A single fin.
Rumor has it that some high performance surfers, and designers are re-exploring the single, and ‘‘discovering’’ previously unexperienced levels of SPEED. Who knew, eh? Seems about time for thick foiled singles to re-emerge, and be exploited, again, for thier speed, and DRIVE. (a topic dear to the hearts of many who post and lurk here.) Any of you fellows out there sniffing around this new concept? If not, you should. It’s an eye opener. Please respond with your EXPERIENCES, as opposed to your theories. Thank you.
Here is a sways discussion on thick foils and such that we have been working on. As you will see, it’s not new tech…but well known tech re applied. So far the feedback has been really good.
