before you know it , it will be the weekend , and you'll be dropping into your first wave , and .....
cheers !
ben
[I still maintain that the back fin is waaay tooo small for the width of the tail , but hey ... your first ride , ALL will be revealed , mate ! ...maybe , 'if' it needs building up after your test surfs , you could do it using multiple roving 'halos' , I wonder ? ....or else , just make a fair few bigger fins ....plugs ??? ]
nice. i like the first position better but would go 1.25" from rail. with a 5’6" of that width the fin is gonna line up a few inches off the nose depending on the curve. stand back about 8 ft and look down the middle. trailer looks big enough, its just a stabilizer and doesn’t need to be large.
also if it looks right , go with it. trial and error will prove whats true and your eye will improve. not a big deal as you seem to have no problem grinding off glass ons, modifying, and moving forward. great work ethic and follow through. imo.
Hey ben, i had ( still have ) a small centre fin i used in my old keel fish. Was smaller than that one, and it added just enough hold/stability for backhand surfing. It slightly stiffened up the front side surfing, so i just rode it without it :). I did put it back in if it was head high +, hollow, and mostly backhand occasionally.
could you post up a shot or two of that setup here, please , as this is the relevant thread for that , by the sounds of it...
interesting the twin KEEL versus twin FINS with stabiliser back fin , eh ?
the 'nubster' of noceans template feels good with the huuge twin FIN template he sent me , which I made into glo ones ! [posted on the 'to nocean' thread , from memory ??]
Hey Pico, thanks for chiming in, and for your compliments. I’m going to get the keels tacked on today so I’m glad to hear your input. I am slightly concerned about the close proximity to the rail that I’m looking at mounting the fins at. Trailing edge (above cut-away section) is only 3/4" off rail (that’s the width of the wing). The trailing edge of the base is about 1" off rail and leading edge will be about 1 5/8" off the rail. My only concern is that I’ve not seen fins set quite that far out on the rail before and there must be a reason for that? (Please excuse my ignorance!) BUT, it looks ok and I’m relying on gut here to a degree.
As far as toe in goes it’s hard to use the nose as a reference as its so unusually rounded and foreshortened. With the keels out on the rails and 1/8" toe-in over the 6" fin length, the fins are going to be WAY outside the nose! I’m not sure about this. Will it encourage tracking, or is this not a problem on a board of this length. I’ve seen “mini-Simmons” shapes with very parallel keels!
Any thoughts?
Having looked at Ben’s work on swaylocks I’m very happy to go with his advice but any other input from anyone experienced with these design combinations would be greatly appreciated.
if I am 'Chippy' , who likes using plugs / fin boxes ,
I think I'll rename you 'Choppy' , because you like 'the chop' ? .... or maybe 'Mitch , the Butcher' [ who likes 'chops' , eh ?! ]
I STILL maintain that this board really IS a candidate for being plugged , if you end up chopping and changing a LOT , Mitch ...
good on ya for going ahead with it , mate !
I can't wait to hear / ?see? [please take a photog with you , if possible?] how it rides ...
By the way , if you have reservations about my placement near the wing and rail , please by all means feel free to go with what pico has suggested , and what your gut feeling is telling you , mate ! I am only 1/17,000 of swaylocks , and there would be PLENTY of people out there that would have tried similar to what you are doing [the SILENT majority , I guess ?...it WOULD have been good if more had given you their feedback , for sure ! ]
...maybe , AFTER you have ridden it , lots of 'experts' will appear from the woodwork , to add their 2c [or metric equivalent] worth of 'advice' , eh ? I HOPE so...'better late than never ' , maybe ? or not...
Sorry, I’ve been flat out since got back. No water photo’s I’m afraid. Yes I got the fins glassed on but only lightly. I ended up wiping out and fracturing the glass around the trailer but no biggie as the fins all need re-glassing more securely to the board. I’m off to France in June so I have a bit of time to sort it out.
As far as riding goes, well. Firstly I’d like to point out my general lack of surf fitness did me no favours. I paddled out OK but was pretty knackered once out there. Chasing peaks was a real chore. I was having real problems to begin with as I was trying to bottom turn off the rail and was using a lot of front foot. Stupid really as the board has quite parallel rails and very little rocker. I went DOWN a number of times in the head high drainers and was wondering what I had done to deserve it! After an hour of quite unsatisfactory slamming we hit another spot around the corner which was a bit smaller and more manageable with my lack of paddle fitness. Back into a cold wetsuit but at least the sun was shining which was a blessing. (I accidentally packed my 4/3 suit instead of my 5/4/3 and the water was only 8 deg C!) Here I quickly realised that to turn this board effectively I needed to use that back foot like a thruster! (Quite ironic I suppose as that’s the feel I was after!) It was only a couple of feet but I managed to get quite a few backhand waves (I’m natural foot). Lot’s of speed quickly, good planing and a loose feel. I’m happy with the fin set up as is as it feels nimble in the turns and really stable once the rail is engaged and the board is in trim. Perhaps a bigger rear would be beneficial in the bigger stuff but I wont really know for sure until I get some more waves. In the small stuff it felt super fun. Firstly though, I have to repair/re-attach that rear fin and glass the keels on more sturdily.
I did have another problem which stopped me surfing eventually (after 3 hours water time I can’t complain!). I took on water! At least a litre, probably more. It doesn’t sound much but it’s enough to stop you catching waves as it drags the tail down into the water when paddling for take off. I’d find myself in just the right spot only to bulldoze the water in front of me and fall off the back of the wave before catching it. (A bit like sitting too far back on your board whilst paddling.) Very frustrating! It could be that the fractured fin glass on the stabiliser could have resulted in a split in the wood work under the fin! Ahh, the trials and tribulations of a HWS builder! I’ll sort it all out and keep you posted.
One last thing. The repositioning of the fins and the reduced area seems to have worked a treat. The board felt fluid and I lost that feeling of “turning around the fins”. Also the more parallel fin toe-in feels great. It helps maintain that planing speed across the water. My mate saw me catch a few and said my board was skimming on top of the water (like a planing hull should) but to me it felt very stable and I had no real issues there. I really look forward to some bigger waves and some cranked over bottom turns with lots of weight on that back foot and inside rail!
I will keep you posted and thanks SO much for your input. A little bit of encouragement and a hand in the right direction is just what I needed.
Spread looks ok too. Thats a 2 degree cant but looks more due to lens position:
[img_assist|nid=1064898|title=2010 5.6 Simster fin placement 2|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480]
Side view:
[img_assist|nid=1064899|title=2010 5.6 Simster fin placement 2|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480]
On closer inspection of the super lightly glassed on rear fin I do think I’ve compromised the glass below the fin and perhaps the wood too. This would explain the ingress of water:
[img_assist|nid=1064900|title=2010 5.6 Simster trailing fin damage|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480]
Those black stains on the wood indicate water too!
at least you've had a surf on it now ... [bummer it took in water !]
thanks for the photos , too...it really helps to SEE the new setup
maybe , while the other back fin is cracked and needs repair , why not make and glass on a bigger back fin ? [now that you have the chance to really take your time, and for france's [?bigger , better quality?] waves , in June ......]
what are the dimensions [length , base , rake] of your existing wooden back fin , please ??
finally , before june in france , could you also make a FOAM version , with plugs .. so you can have a more versatile setup , and a good comparison ?
That rear trailer is 3 1/4 x 3 1/4 and is a scaled down version of a John John Florence thruster rear. I’m tempted to retain it as is but as always I’m interested in your input. Perhaps it would be a bit twitchy in those bowling beach breaks?
As for mowing foam in the backyard of my London home, it ain’t going to happen! My Neighbours wouldn’t go much on it, either would my wife. The kids (3 & 4 years old) would reakk total havoc! I just need to get my HWS feeling right and I’ll be happy!