Finless shapes

Hi Roy…

Have you ever made one of your boards to be surfed finless?

There are interesting similarities between your long, heavy timber shapes and the famous Hawaiian “Hot Curl” finless design.

“The faster you go the less fin you need… ultimately it would be nice to get rid of the fins completely. That would be where we would love to be because that would be the least amount of drag.”

Laird Hamilton


Is anybody bringing a “hot curl” to Big Sur? I would love to try one!

Roger

Hello Dale,

No I have never tried a finless board, but I have wondered about it. Were the ‘Hot curl’ boards able to hold a high line? I am presently interested in using small tunnels by themselves, the tunnel has very low drag, and feels like there is no fin there except that it hangs in there when going fast.

No fin at all would be a leap of faith! Perhaps a heavy concave on a very fine pintail with a very small tunnel to complete the circle . . . I notice that the latest high speed sailing machines have no surface piercing foils.

Right now I am still working on the Paipo.

Regards, Roy

PS That board in the picture is a 10"4" Redwood and was built very lightly, it only weighs about 12 to 15 pounds.

Hey Roger ,Im going to try and bring Andreinis redwood balsa chambered Hotcurl . Marc has made about 3 or 4 this year. One was solid Koa for Roger Nance owner of the Beachouse it took 2 to turn it around and the shaping racks! 11’ 7’’ long. KP.

“Were the ‘Hot curl’ boards able to hold a high line?”

Yes… from everything Ive heard and read about them. In fact, there was a very nice historical piece w/photos on the origins and development of the Hawaiian "Hot Curl" in a past issue of The Surfers Journal:

“Hot Curl Surfing” by Craig Stecyk, Volume 3, No. 2, Summer 1994.

My personal experience has been that competantly designed and surfed finless boards can frequently hold higher, longer trim lines than any fin(s) dependent design. Blazing fast linear speed.

My pal Dan Herlihy, is currently getting ready to film more footage in Hawaii of the finless woodboard men. He sent me the hotcurl booklet last week for me to study.

I am going to be making him 2 hotcurls for the video. I was going to use Velzy’s KKL program to cut them on but, after talking to Sean Mattison, who has about as much time on wood hotcurls as any modern surfer, don’t. Sean has a hotcurl that came from the rafters of a barn in Temecula and says that it is the magic one. Dales boards sport a really long pronounced V, running from belly to tail. This makes for a very sticky, tracking board, the old one from Temecula, has a consistant roll through the bottom, veeing only at the last few inched. Sean explained that the roll, combined with the high rail in the tail give it more than enough hold to stabilze the tail. The all V bottom wants to counter turn opposed to your weight change, while the roll bottom follows your lead. Sean say he will take me and the boards out for an R&D session, so I can get a first had feel of what it is like to swim after an 80 pound board

Jim,

Do you know if Sean Mattison has experimented much with lightweight wood or foam Hot Curls?

Dan Herlihy… why his interest in documenting finless wood board riders? Could you please share a bit about the Hot Curl booklet?

Thanks…

Dale, speaking of finless surfboards- I was going through a bunch of pictures a bit back, and I found this pic, I have been meaning to post it up on swaylocks. In the picture is my original finless #1, the board I added to the swaylocks archives a while back. But what is cool about this particular photo is that it includes my finless #2, I believe that it is the only existing picture of the board. Sadly it fell victim to my impulsive creativity and a disk sander… only about half of it is still kicking around my shaping room. This board was much more maneuverable than the first one, although it didn’t hold a line as well. It was built with a little input from Will Jobson on the first design, and also a few sporadic thoughts from Mike Croteau. I wish I had a picture of the deck and tail, it was pretty neat, I made the last 1/3 of the board in the same shape as the bottom concaves, it was an interesting effect that I saw on an early Campbell Bros. Bonzer. As for your first post, I think I have mentioned that I also converted one of my old long boards to a semi-hotcurl design, it worked really well, and yes, it held a very high line all of the time, it was actually the way the board preferred to ride. -Carl

Many thanks for the info, Carl… and that pic is a keeper! Great stuff.

Dale

Are you the guy listed in Santa Cruz Longboard Union Invitational Contest results as numero uno in Men’s division? (Longboard Magazine 8/04 pg 34)

Quote:

Are you the guy listed in Santa Cruz Longboard Union Invitational Contest results as numero uno in Men’s division? (Longboard Magazine 8/04 pg 34)

Yep thats me. :slight_smile: -Carl

Way to go!

WARNING! Not a “serious post”! The sun just came out and I “have” to go to Ventura on business, so I’m feeling good…

Quote:

Sean say he will take me and the boards out for an R&D session, so I can get a first had feel of what it is like to swim after an 80 pound board

Jim, I would offer the notion that it will be much better to swim after an 80 pound board, rather than in front of it. But please, please have somebody take video of the session, preferably some quick and nimble sort who can do it from the water. I’d pay through almost any body orifice to have sound and video of a crew sitting half under water snidely commenting on how that wood hot curl can’t turn worth caca, and then watch them slowly discover that the monster lumbering their way after a wipeout isn’t going to stop because they have stickers on their boards!

Oh, the humanity!

Back when there were a lotta surf movies - this would have been in the early/mid '80s - a couple guys came around with a movie 'bout their finless boards. They had surfed them all over the world, and touted their “incredibly strong” glass jobs, supposedly nearly immune to hammer blows.

The boards were not atypical of the day, say low seven-footers to high six-foot in length, wide roundish tails with a pronounced wide channel in the last 18 inches of bottom.

The boards appeared to work okay until they went out at overhead Pipe, with predictable results. In case you’re not up to date with “predictable”, let’s just say they side-skated down the face, fell off the side, and got sucked over (know how that feels, no fun).

Finless boards may work if the board is long, heavy, and has enough belly or vee in the bottom, but on “real” waves - no way. We (collectively) have developed and use a variety of fins to accomplish that. Finless is dead, let’s not go back.

Finless is dead?

If you think the sky is pink, then to you it is.

Finless designs include standing, kneeling, sitting and prone. Finless designs can weigh 100 pounds or 18 ounces.

Like it or not, the old has a funny way of returning as new. Last time I looked, finless surf craft ruled the hollowest, fastest waves on earth.


“The faster you go the less fin you need… ultimately it would be nice to get rid of the fins completely. That would be where we would love to be because that would be the least amount of drag.”

Laird Hamilton

Holy crap! Now you tell us! I just realized that all my boards, me and all my friends totally suck because we don`t ride “real” waves like overhead Pipe. LOL

Quote:

Back when there were a lotta surf movies - this would have been in the early/mid '80s - a couple guys came around with a movie 'bout their finless boards. They had surfed them all over the world, and touted their “incredibly strong” glass jobs, supposedly nearly immune to hammer blows.

The boards were not atypical of the day, say low seven-footers to high six-foot in length, wide roundish tails with a pronounced wide channel in the last 18 inches of bottom.

The boards appeared to work okay until they went out at overhead Pipe, with predictable results. In case you’re not up to date with “predictable”, let’s just say they side-skated down the face, fell off the side, and got sucked over (know how that feels, no fun).

Finless boards may work if the board is long, heavy, and has enough belly or vee in the bottom, but on “real” waves - no way. We (collectively) have developed and use a variety of fins to accomplish that. Finless is dead, let’s not go back.

What was the name of this surf video that you speak of… do you remember? I’d love to see it. As for your comment about finless surfing being “dead,” keep thinking that, it’s what they want you to think. :slight_smile: -Carl

Dale, Dan Herlihy is one of those people that have been in the shadows like myself for ever. He was one of the pioneers of Tres Palmas in Puerto Rico with Duke Michaels, became the first easterner to be in the Windansea Surf Club, lived in the islands with Hynson, worked at the old Hobie factory. Now he is recuperating from a hip replacement and has given his time out of the water to documenting surfing as it was, last winter he got some great footage of Tom Stone surfing Sunset and Phantoms on his Wiliwili wood boards, he also was able to film an ancient board contest at Queens, with the competitors cutting back cleanly and doing helicopter spins. After seeing Tom surf his Wiliwili at Sunset, it is evident, there were Hawaiian versions of Kelly slater 500 years ago.

Sean has had hotcurls made of really light balsa, varnished only, but he says the heavier boards ride better, the light ones are on top of the water too much

“After seeing Tom surf his Wiliwili at Sunset, it is evident, there were Hawaiian versions of Kelly Slater 500 years ago.”

Many thanks, Jim! Great to hear about Dan Herlihy`s efforts.

Imagine how skilled many of the ancient surfers must have been… an extremely humbling thought to ponder.

Pura vida

lunchmeats quotes Sam Reid,“A board in every curl and not a fin in the water” the over head picture of waikiki breaking first break surf in the pre fin era…competence was determined by the ability not by the equiptment,thereby seperarimg the boys…from the men.the extended v going to the tail frees the water to relase and dosent create the suck to hold the tail i n the water…all mt boards are made to ride with continually reducing fins, that is progressively stalking the hot curl that kelly was talking about ambrose