First board, first session - take off question

General Discussion
1

Got two days in this past weekend in chest to head+ high beach break (Monterrey Bay north of Moss Landing) on my first board (a 5’11" twin wooden keel fish). I’m pretty happy with the board (I’ll post some pics soon), but I’m not too happy with me. I haven’t ridden short boards since the mid-80s, so I’m having some takeoff issues. Also, I’d categorize my skill level as intermediate or only slightly better. The board paddles well enough, I’m in OK paddling shape and I didn’t have trouble catching waves. I just had a lot of trouble popping up to a solid stance quick enough to actually make the drop. When I did, the board flew and felt great on bottom turns, but the majority of the time I got pitched. Never had so many free fall, air drop/splats in my life. So along the lines of the recent paddling thread, could some of you give me your thoughts on going from paddling to being solidly on your feet on a late drop? My sense was that in addition to needing to be quicker, that I needed to move way more forward as I popped to my feet - almost like I needed to pull the board back at the same time I was pushing up.

thanks,

Jim

2

Moving forward and back on a short board is pretty fine tuning compared to a long board. Chances are you’re close to the right spot if you’re an intermediate surfer. More likely, the waves were just a little more pitching than usual combined with your being used to having a board that gets you in sooner. Give it a few more days, your positioning in the ocean is going to be more critical with the decreased paddling power. As far as paddling to standing on a late drop, you got it… be quick. Practice doing a pushup so hard that you throw your whole body into the air as your front foot slides up and stops in position all in one fluid motion.

3

Jim,

Good to hear the board is in the water.

As far as take-off goes, if you havn’t ridden a shortboard since the 80’s my advice is just to stick at it… it’ll come to you. Longboards are more forgiving with getting to your feet as they tend to be wider and have more area where you can land your feet and still get into the wave - the art of adjusting your feet is also a lot easier on a longboard. With a shorter board like a fish you will find the right placement for your feet soon enough. It may help to mark the exact body position you need when paddling that will give you the fight feet position when you pop. I do this by marking an X in the wax on the board where my eyes should be when paddling for a wave.

Also, a tail pad may help with getting your back foot in the right spot… surf a few sessions without one and find the right spot for your back foot… remove the wax and place a tailpad where your back foot goes. Takes the guess work out of back foot placement. That said, I don’t like tail pads :slight_smile:

-Cam

4

Hey Jim,

Glad to hear the board is finished and you’re riding it. Can’t add any advice to the above, just stick with it. Oh yah, please don’t put a pad on your fish. Mike

5

were the waves so fast that perhaps you needed to take off at an angle ?

today I got pitched on one when I attempted to go straight to the bottom and bottom turn .

I went straight to the bottom , alright !! [my mate took great pleasure in telling me he got that one …on photo , not video, luckily [although , I guess with video at least I could have seen in slow motion where I NEEDED to be , compared to where I was …both on the wave, and the board …the wave sucked out , I just plain suck…

ben

[edit…

feel like a good laugh ?

here’s the shot , then …

check out the tube I missed getting !

Now , repeat after me …

“I’m SOO glad I’m not as big a kook as that friggin ’ chipfish61 whacker !!”

…There … that feels GOOD , don’t it ??

6

a 5’11’ fish is going to fly immediately on takeoff. maybe try a bit longer, more forgiving board for a while and get your takeoffs down, then jump back on the fish.

7

p.s. - the board in my photo above is a 5’11 fish .

Know what my mate the photog said ?

“chip, I think you need a bigger board” … [insert ‘twilight zone’ music now…

8

Jimbrake,

What helped me a lot was to practice doing the standing up sequence on dry land. They’re called “burpees” and you do it the same way you would on the board ideally.

  1. Lay on the floor

2.put your hands on the floor in the same relative position you would on the board when standing.

  1. push up quickly and throw your front foot under your chest at what would be a 45 degree angle to the stringer of your board.

  2. At the same time bring your back foot into the correct position relative to the left foot.

  3. Try standing up into a variety of positions including a full croutch.

  4. Repeat this sequence 10 or 20 or 30 times until it is smooth and effortless. After a few days of this you will notice a lot more speed standing up, and more accuracy and flexibility with foot placement. I like to practice the burpees as if I was doing push ups and develop some speed and strength.

Check it out and let me know if it works for you as well as it does for me.

9

Thanks everyone. I know that I mainly need a lot of reps on this board and then the pop up will start to come more easily. I’ll definitely spend more time practicing on land, too. Ben, I resembled your picture a lot this past weekend.

Jim

10
Quote:

Jimbrake,

What helped me a lot was to practice doing the standing up sequence on dry land. They’re called “burpees” and you do it the same way you would on the board ideally.

  1. Lay on the floor

2.put your hands on the floor in the same relative position you would on the board when standing.

  1. push up quickly and throw your front foot under your chest at what would be a 45 degree angle to the stringer of your board.

  2. At the same time bring your back foot into the correct position relative to the left foot.

  3. Try standing up into a variety of positions including a full croutch.

  4. Repeat this sequence 10 or 20 or 30 times until it is smooth and effortless. After a few days of this you will notice a lot more speed standing up, and more accuracy and flexibility with foot placement. I like to practice the burpees as if I was doing push ups and develop some speed and strength.

Check it out and let me know if it works for you as well as it does for me.

IMHO this works well for a long board, not so well for a short board because your feet will normally be behind the tail of the board. There are multiple ways to do this without using your toes for support, just dragging your knees and feet under you or doing a ‘chip’ with you feet to get you’re body up from the board, etc. It helps to figure out one way that works for you and do the pushup without using your toes for support to standing on dry land. It’s also alot easier to get your feet under you when you are at an angle downwards on a wave and you are semi-weightless. Peronally I cheat, bending one leg so I get my toes on the tail of the board, then do a pushup. If you do this slowly on a powerless wave though, you pretty much always stall(atleast I do).

I also find there are some waves/breaks that I just cannot get the hang of on my fish. Another thing, do you have sharp rails in the back? I sharpened the rails on my fish and catching waves was much, much easier.

Good luck.

regards,

Håvard

11

Haavad,

When you do this quick push up, it should be done with the same feeling and speed that you would do the similar move on takeoff on a wave. As on the board, the toes should not touch the ground as they would in a regular pushup. To put your toes on the board will not work on a short board unless you are real short, and would slow the maneuver down too much, if you could. Speed is the key. When I first started practicing this maneuver I was riding a 6’4" regularly. It helped immensely.

The knees are literally THROWN forward, in a very fast sequence, with the left leg forward (if you are a regular foot). Do NOT drag your knees or legs slowly across the board. If you can do this move successfully on land, it will be even easier on the board when the board is pointing down at the trough of the wave and the adrenaline of the moment cuts in. It must be fast and smooth or you will be doomed as if you had never practiced it!
12

you need to take off

(A) on abit of an angle and…

(B) get to your feet quicker (this makes a huge difference and can improve your ride greatly)

Chip, you shoulda’ takin it on your knees…!

13

yes, Josh…

I DID " take it on my knees"…

…and my head

…and my spine…

the full double rinse cycle , and tumble wash…

“…EXXXXCELLLLENTTTTT…”

[Not to labour the point too much …or put the horse before the cart or anything, but…

some degree of good eyesight to be able to discern a wave approaching may also help the wave catching cause for me , a bit …

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14

“duuuuuude , you dropped in on me , duuuuude !!”

“…mate , I never even SAW you there …”

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"are you serious ?!! "

"…you’d better BELIEVE it !!! "

[why else do you think Hicksy and I never surf together ?? ]

…ocean going crash test dummies …

ben

15
Quote:

Haavad,

When you do this quick push up, it should be done with the same feeling and speed that you would do the similar move on takeoff on a wave. As on the board, the toes should not touch the ground as they would in a regular pushup. To put your toes on the board will not work on a short board unless you are real short, and would slow the maneuver down too much, if you could. Speed is the key. When I first started practicing this maneuver I was riding a 6’4" regularly. It helped immensely.

The knees are literally THROWN forward, in a very fast sequence, with the left leg forward (if you are a regular foot). Do NOT drag your knees or legs slowly across the board. If you can do this move successfully on land, it will be even easier on the board when the board is pointing down at the trough of the wave and the adrenaline of the moment cuts in. It must be fast and smooth or you will be doomed as if you had never practiced it!

I don’t quite understand how you can throw your knees forward after a pushup on your knees without dragging either the knees or feet unless your basicly weightless. Either that or the mechanics of it is more like those breakdance moves… :slight_smile: The key would be to get your ass up, to leave room for moving your knees/feet forward. That’s where the ‘chip’(dunno if this is the correct expression for it in english but this is one way to do a ‘chip’ http://www.uio.no/studier/emner/matnat/fys/FYS-MEK1110/v05/nakkesprett2.mpg) comes in. Basically for a popup you would in one way or another throw you legs/feet up to get your lower body up as you do the pushup.

I agree, it’s not the best idea to put your backfoot at the tail of the board, specially in poor/small waves. That’s why I prefere a longboard in those waves, problem solved. In bigger/steeper waves you get the weightless feeling and it all works so much easier. Just try to do the popup on an incline, head down. Much easier.

But yeah, I need to work on that pop up…

regards,

Håvard

16

haavard , that’s claaaaasic mate …they do funny takeoffs in norway , on their backs eh ?

www.uio.no/studier/emner/matnat/fys/FYS-MEK1110/v05/nakkesprett2.mpg

If they all do “the chip” [yes, please !!] …no wonder the norwegian girls are in demand , after watching that little video of my namesake manouevre ! [got any footage of your female friends er doing it [the chip] , please ?

ben

17

LOL,

damn these language barriers… I guess it’s called a ‘kip up’ of some sort. In Norwegian the term is used more general for several types of sudden ‘push off’/kick/throw motion in gymnastics, so it would (kind of) apply for throwing your legs up towards your back as well. Just imagine doing the same thing as in the video only reversed laying on your stomach and mirrored (or something) :slight_smile:

regards,

Håvard

18

Haavard,

I watched the clip…of the “chip” and I definitely have no idea how that move relates to popping up on a board - long or short. Anyway, I agree about the feet. I was practicing at home last night and quickly realized that my toes were an important part of the push up and that a simple push up wouldn’t work on my fish as my feet do hang off the back (just barely). I tried popping up from a push up on my knees and that didn’t really work either because when you do the push up it’s basically pins the knees against the board right when you want to be bringing them forward. I’m just hoping that the downward angle, semi-weightlessness and ability to move the board with my hands will allow me to figure this out next time I’m in the water. Any other ideas?

Jim

19

Jim

good to hear you have a new board in the water. Sorry you’re having trouble.

Some good advice here on popping up.

You have chosen a tough board to transition down to. Yes, fish paddle great and catch waves great, but other areas are not so great and it looks like you already found them.

Wide tail and lack of tail rocker do not like pitchy waves and neither do they like bump, especially at take off. Clean, slightly steep surf is when takeoffs on these boards are the easiest. You may want to transition down with a little more user friendly board to keep you from getting frustrated when the conditions aren’t right for “fish learning”.

When you go to pop up, try not to let the board get down the face until you’re on your feet. When you feel the wave has you, put your hands on the deck, not the rails and straighten your arms and pull back a little to stall the board up at the top of the wave, now pop up. (do not try this on hollow waves!).

Even though you are a good paddler this doesn’t mean a lot as far as popping up goes on a small board. You need good upper body strength, A STRONG CORE, and good fast twitch muscle awareness.

A good way to get to your stance correctly is this:

Stand on your board in the stance you want on dry land with the fins cushioned.

Mark where your front foot is

Take a piece of non skid stripping about 2’ wide (hardware store) and put it on rail to rail across the board at the point where your front foot goes

When you stand up your front foot must go right between your hands. The strip does 2 things, it lets you know where to place your hands on the board when popping up and it tells you where to put your front foot. Everything else falls into place.

C

20
Quote:

Haavard,

I watched the clip…of the “chip” and I definitely have no idea how that move relates to popping up on a board

LOL, I can see that. Well, in the ‘kip up’, there are quite a few things going on, but the thing that get’s the upward motion is the kick up with the legs. In surfing, the idea is to lay on your stomach and kick your legs up towards you back aand also arch your back in a sudden burst. With a sudden enough kick you should be able to get your lower body off the ground leaving room to move your feet forward(or rather kick/snap them back, curling your back). If you’re good at this, you should be able to get your ass about 2 feet up from the ground and be up in an instance(For the record, I’m not. I cheat).

IMHO there is nothing wrong with dragging your knees and feet under you from a kneeling pushup. Yes, it is slower and less graceful than the above, but if you are in the right position in the wave being semi-weightless it doesn’t really matter all that much. On the other hand, a quick pop up is often the difference between a good wave and being caught in the whitewater.

Hope this helped a little bit. Good luck.

regards,

Håvard