One question about post curing, if I post cure overnight at say 130*F, will I be able to surf the board the next day after it is sanded? I work at a dealership and the body shop said I can bake my board in the paint booth overnight. I just need to call homeblown and ask about biofoams heat tolerance. Also how does a wet/tacky lam effect pin lines?
MD - Thanks, wouldn’t be that nice without your help. I learned that lesson about sanding already, but a laminate will cover it up. I planned on doing it saturday night into sunday so I can surf it monday, hopefully it will be dry enough. We are moving down near Pelican Beach Park in a few weeks, is there a lot of coquina ledges there?
Stingray, That sounds like a pretty easy plan. The only problem I have is that I am not using CE, mine is clear 2000. I am using slow hardener so I figured I would double your times. If the lams come out well I may use the fast I have for the hot coat.
When I put the futures boxes in, I think I cut the depth a little too deep. So hopefully I won’t have too much problems with that. I am going to print out a few threads to with me when I go. There has been a lot of great info in this and other threads and that kicks ass.
I’m a beginner as well,I use RR fast and have plenty of time to work.Even when using accelerator in my fill coat there is alot of spare time to walk around the board and nitpick at the end.Befor dumping all my resin on the board I like to roll the cloth away from the rails just enough and go around the board quckly and brush a coat of resin on the rails(not a dripping amount),flip the cloth back to its normal position and strategically pour all my resin onto the board avoiding run off at the nose and tail,then cruise around with the squegee.Avoid deep puddles or poolingYou can leave a little in the bucket for an emergency,but if it’s too thick it will get hot(a quarter inch or so is fine).The resin on the rails will help your cloth wetout easier when you get there.
"One question about post curing, if I post cure overnight at say 130*F, will I be able to surf the board the next day after it is sanded? "
Why rush the job? Perfection takes time. You can surf the board after hot coating with no sanding if you really need it that bad. I’m not a Pro , I don’t post cure. I think a spray booth would make a great oven. Your going to burn a lot of fuel running that booth over night at 135*F…
OK more on My glassing method…Lots of good input from fellow Swaylockers…2000 resin uses the same steps as CE. I would really struggle with any hardener slower that the fast stuff. Ha ha…With a Future fin system install you need to work out all the bubbles around the boxes. I think FoamEZ has an install video on there web sight.
So we left off Sunday night with a board that was lamminated and hot coated. Monday when you get home from work use an angle grinder to sand off all the drips and chuncks and rough stuff. If you don’t have an angle grinder use a rasp file or a sanding block with some 60 grit. We just want to get the board smooth enough to carry it without getting cut up from all the drips and junk. Now you have all week to do your fin installs.If you did Futures or LockBox make sure you have a bubble free lam.
So now it’s Friday night…fin boxes are installed…board has had plenty of time to cure. Set up for power sanding. Move or cover everything that you don’t want to get dust on…I’ve had one noise complaint…someone called the cops because I was power sanding at night…So Sat morning after surfing is a good time to sand. 100 grit sand paper at about 1700 -2000 rpm… whatever speed makes you feel good. Keep the sander moving. It’s really easy to sand through and if you create too much heat in one area you will get soft spots.(there goes the post cure). I use 2 inch tape to tape the board to the rack. Hard rails ,wings, tips and swallow tials might be better to hand sand…After power sanding I go over the whole board by hand to make sure everything is good. You washed your hands before you started…Right???
Now clean the shop. sweep and vacuum. take the board outside and wash it off with the hose and your hand.
That’s all for now…
next I’ll talk about 2nd hot coat and why I waste my time with that step…
Definitely check with Biofoam before you post-cure at 130 degree F. Might want to ask Sammy or GL about that also. Or there may be someone on here with experience? Pinlines should go on the sanded hotcoat, so lam status is moot.
Before you give me any credit for the shape help, I wanna point out that I never touched your blank with a tool. You did all the work, I just gave some tips on tool use and methodology. You get the credit.
Pelican Park is in the heart of the coquina reefs. Those rocks are your friends.
I had planned on doing cutlaps because that seemed like it would be easier for me to do a neat clean lap but I am now not sure if I can do that without pulling up some paint. My lap line is less than 2" , 1.75" I think I did. I noticed most processes here don’t include cutlaps. I do not trust myself doing a clean free lap I am working on finding a way to get a neat lap with out drawing on the blank. I read about using a thumb length…
I haven’t seen pics of the bottom. What do you think about doing the deck first? Might it save the color from lap/tape bugaboos?
In a PM I suggested the Ben Sparks lam/fill/no flip method. It adds some sanding between top and bottom laminations but if you time it right you get a wet-wet lam/fill bond.
I second the ‘seal the deal’ second epoxy coat idea. Poly gloss can work too.
Hello Mike D ,please speak up if you see anything that I’m doing wrong or could be done better. I respect your opinion…
Same goes for anyone else. I have thick skin…
Cut laps vs. free laps makes a good debate…for me there’s two big problems with cut laps and epoxy.
First, the resin takes so dam long to cure you end up waiting too long or you get a big sticky mess because you tried to cut too soon. It’s not like a poly cut lap. It can be done but it’s tricky
Second , the resin takes so dam long to cure… then resin eats into the tape adhesive. Now you’ve got a big sticky mess…
…and…you can tape over paint but there’s problems there too…
Edit…I just went back and looked at the paint job. Nice colors. I would free lap this board. It’s easy. Ever wonder why most “production” boards are free laped? Cut your cloth so it does not go into the color. Do a pin line like Mike says…
We now have a clean shop and a surfboard that’s been sanded with 100 grit. For most people the board is done…maybe spray on some rattle can semi gloss or sand with 150 and do a little acrylic floor finish…I’ve been exchanging ideas with some of the San Diego guys and we like go the extra mile and do a second hot coat. Some call it a gloss coat. I say you need to “seal the deal”.
Before the 2nd hot coat is the time when you fix all your sand throughs and do your pin lines…
No solvents…wipe off the board or use compressed air if you dare…We’re doing the deck first. 2" tape around the center of the rail hanging down to protect the bottom. Most boards have a hard rail at the rear so depending on the shape I angle down so that at the tail the tape is actually under the board. …Hard to explain…
Mix resin…use add F…not too much…use a 3" chip brush. Play around with the brush to work out all the loose hairs.
No air movement in the shop…turn of that fan…Pour out all the resin onto the deck. Slowly work the resin aprox 90* to the stringer ,paint it on the sides, slowly cover the whole board with resin…
…Ready…
…I’m right handed…Brush in the right hand…empty resin cup in the left…Start at the back and do one slow ,light stroke from tail to nose along the stringer…excess resin goes into cup…brush gets wiped off into cup as needed. Back and forth until board is good. Work it too much and the resin will be too thin and give you wierd problems…walk slowly around the board and use the brush or some tweezers to pick off any loose hairs. About every10-15 min run the brush along the tape to eliminate buildup on the tape line.You might get some fish eyes or other wierdness…Sometimes you can save it with the brush. Some times it’s best to just walk away and sand it out later…After about an hour pull the tape…
Repeat for the bottom…
Do a Swaylock’s Search and you might find the thread where PlusOneShaper teaches Stingray how to Gloss Coat. Good stuff!
Doing the deckside first is a great way to save color worries. But this is going to be guy’s FIRST-EVER side, so it makes a lot of sense for him to do a bottom. For those that have a little experience, it’s definitely the best way to make sure you don’t mess up the color. Frequently done in pro glass shops.
Ray, you’re doin’ fine. I would defer to GL for any constructive criticisms. Sounds like you’ve done it enough that you’ve got a technique that gives consistent results. That’s what really matters.
Ray - Very much thanks for the time you put into this thread. It really helped to ease my tensions. I think if I adjust your times some to maybe 4-5 hours flip times for the lams, I will be ok. My garage stays pretty warm. I am going to print this and have it with me. It’s going to be humid but its getting to be a summertime and it is humid all the time.
I have devised a plan for the “free lap” which is to put my glass on my board and center it out. Put a clean layer of tape on my template to keep any nasty’s off my glass. Cut approximately 2" around my template and be good. Now for the deck I want to do the same thing except make the first layer .5 to 1" shorter than the top layer right? Now hopefully we can ride this board, the smallest I have ridden is a 7’6" x21.5 x 2.75 semi-gunnish looking deal.
Alright. The lamination portion is complete. Two problems came up. Other than that I am pretty pleased. Ray, and everyone else who contributed to this thread…THANK YOU! Hope other people can benefit from it too. Also, where it was pretty humid - can you see blush or is it just “there”?
Lots of bubbles in box areas. I read about fixing that and went and bought some 18ga needles to pump some resin in there. It is going to be about 3 more hours before I can flip to go back and fill those areas in since I am using slow. Will it be too late to use the neaedle? Do I need to patch those areas or will the two hot coats suffice?
Since my lap sucked, and I didn’t do a very good job sanding it down, I am sure there is are in there. I could hear them pop when I pulled the squeegee through every time. If they are not big enough to be classified as bubbles. Do I need to bother with them, as I am not sure how I could fix them when you can’t see them. I know they are there(I think).
I’ve never had to deal with blush…My discussions with John Mellor tell me that “blush” is a milky white film that happens on top of the glass job…I can’t give advise on blush issues…
“Froth” happens from over working the resin…think of it as a whole bunch of “micro bubbles”.You will get it on your laps and in those tricky areas like tips and tails…It’s quite normal…that’s why many people shy away from color with epoxy… don’t sweat the froth…the board will be strong.
I like to do fade jobs with my paint…The froth and the fade are a fair trade…Ha ha…:)…having fun…
For the other questions…take it all the way to hot coat…From there all problems can be treated as a repair…
Blush is clear and gives the board an almost greasy/slimey feel even after the epoxy has fully cured. It can be scrubbed off with a scouring pad and water but if you have any pin air you might want to rethink that one. Sanding works too but you can’t really get down in the deep sections of the weave without sacrificing a bit of the laminate. I’ve heard of people using a wire cup on a grinder to scuff the surface.
I actually thought the deck first might be a better way for a beginner to avoid issues with the paint?
In any case, it’s beyond that point now.
I should point out that Ray has gone the extra mile to give you some first rate advice. His glass jobs are rock solid and beautiful as well. His years of painting experience give him an added touch. Step by step he’s given you the goods.
The pointers he’s offered should be condensed and archived in the epoxy section.
Alright, while trying to inject some resin into the air pockets in the boxes, I ran into a problem. The resin is hard enough that I cannot get the needle to puncture…oops I am looking through the archives now but I am have trouble with the new system.
Stingray’s technique was great. I recommend it to any first timer. Had it not been for my ineptness and trying to win the race, it would have been a total success.
I’m also in the process of doing my first glass job (on my fourth board), and using epoxy 'cause I can do it at home without upsetting the neighbours and family too much.
I’m in South Africa, and we don’t get the RR epoxy (or virtually any of the brands commonly mentioned on Swaylocks). I’m using Gurit SP 115.
I did the bottom yesterday afternoon. Everything went well, except that I took a bit too long, and the resin started to gel just before I finished the lap on the nose end of one rail. It took me a moment to realise what was going on, and I ended up making a couple of bubbles by the back of the roller pulling up the glass as it rolled. I quickly made a small new batch and finished the rest, but I do now have a couple of bubbles to fix and some big resin lumps to sand down. I started to sand the laps this afternoon, but although the part of the board glassed with the first batch of resin sanded fine, the part I did with the second batch isn’t as hard and will have to wait until tomorrow (hopefully).
So, my lesson 1 is this:- Relax while laminating, but don’t take too long; and if the resin does start to gel and pull against your roller/squeegee/spreader - stop IMMEDIATELY.
I am looking through the archives now but I am have trouble with the new system.