I would first like to briefly thank and acknowledge everyone who has contributed to an incredible forum. I have been waiting silently in the archives for about a year and a half–I stumbled upon Sways while building my first board (a very fortunate find I’m sure everyone will concede). I have finally decided to breach the cease fire and join in the conversation.
I am considering building a 6’-6’2"X14"X20"X14 1/2"X2 5/8" (approximate measurements) Round Pin–maybe a fat squash ??–Bonzer.
I was reading a great post in the archive on superchargers and canards that involved some of the greats of fin design and it got me thinking about using a canard quad setup for bonzer runners with the typical bonzer style center fin.
Here are the questions: Is there any reason to believe that (assuming proper placement of the fins) canard runners will have an effect on performance that is different from other bonzer runners–especially with regard to combination with bonzer bottom? Or would this merely be aesthetic? Any expereinces? Any suggestions for tail configuration? I’m flexible. Squash? Rd. pin? winged pin? Winged swallow?
I may be oversimplifying/overextending the use of the word canard here, but what I intend is something like the attachment (Leading Fin: single foiled, canted and toed; Trailing Fin: double foiled, slightly canted, no toe). The overall fin area would be made to approximate typical bonzer runners.
Welcome to the live fire zone! IMO… Squash it! I say go for squash tail… in my experience, its easier to get up on. for some reason I always tipped towards my backside when riding pins or rounded pins whilst squash tails have given me greater stability. no clue on the fins… if I was you, ask Chipfish61. Hes a fin genious. and a very old stinky fossil fish.
bonzer runners and the fins you have illustrated are two entirely separate entities; runners are super low aspect ratio finlets; the fins you have drawn are lower aspect ratio than what is being used currently by Rainbow for their “canard quad” set-up (which, if you read the thread you posted are obviously mis-named), but still nowhere near as low as the typical CB runners. There are some implications there; for the same fin surface area, a high aspect fin should be faster, more efficient (generate more lift), but will be more prone to ventilation (spin-out) and imperfections in the foil will be more noticeable.
bonzer bottoms (from my limited knowledge; caveat nothing first hand) are a bit of a b*tc#. Hope you’ve got one to go off of…the new generation of quads has a pretty substantial single running right out the tail…not too far off a bonzer kind of idea, but the bonzer bottom seems designed to direct the flow of water off the fins whereas the newer quad bottom seems designed to bust it out tha back, effectively using the fins as gates to keep the water under the board; more lift, higher plane, more straightline speed.
The relationship of high-aspect fins to ventilation you describe is a problem that is often reported with quad fish (those with fins whose plan shapes are similar to what I described–or the rainbow canards). However, does ventilation present as much of a problem when the higher aspect fins are teamed with a comparatively larger center fin. I may not be clear on what you mean by spin-out…I take it to mean that the board feels extraordinarily loose because the fins are generating turbulent flow.
Additionally, I “feel” that the combination of toe, cant, and the interplay of paired single and double foiled runners will only improve directional flow of the bonzer bottom creating even more of what you describe for the quads (water kept under the tail; more lift; higher planing; and more straightline speed)–who doesn’t want that?
Thanks for your reply…the theoretical discussion is exactly what I was hoping for.
but , really , Halcyon and Bert and others are WAAAY more experienced with fins than me . [And I’m definately no genius !]
Lokbox , who posts here , may actually be better to ask , as he rides the bonzer runners and fishes, too.
Personally , I’d go with bonzer runners …
And either a square or a rounded pin tail …but that’s just me . [ My fish with bonzer runners is taking me a while to get used to riding , at present .]
Of course , if you put boxes and/ or plugs in , then you can ride it with WHATEVER fin setup you want / make …on a daily basis . [I HAVE experimented with that …the " research continues " !]
you’re famous for pictures…how about one of the fish with bonzer runners you’re talking about (kind of the reverse idea of what I want to do–a bonzer with fish fins). Or if I missed it along the way how about a link to the thread.
thanks for the input…i was hoping that you would contribute to the thread as you are obviously one of the biggest proponents of fin experimentation on the forum. Is there any theoretical reason you would go with the bonzer runners over runners with higher aspect ratio–other than, of course, the last 35 years of refinement by the Campbell brothers.
nothing wrong with a little healthy experimentation, right?
