first time lam with epoxy questions

Finished shaping a couple of boards and started laminating with epoxy over the weekend.

Following the guidelines published in other threads, I keep coming up short on resin. For instance, the first board is what I call a “big fat fish” - 6’11" 23" and 3.5" thick (I’m a big guy- I like the float), 6 and 4oz bottom lam, dbl 6 top lam, I started the bottom with 15oz total and the top with 18oz total (according to what I read) - but I had to mix an extra 6 oz for each side to finish wetting out the laps and get everything done. So, is this normal? Or am I leaving too much resin in the cloth? I don’t have any puddling on the flats or big drips hanging off the rails, and I can see the cloth weave. I did waste some resin on the floor perhaps a couple of oz per side…

It all worked out and the lam seems ok (hardly any bubbles and the resin went off as advertised), but it bugs me that I am using substantially more resin than what was published.

Any suggestions welcomed…

 

What happened to the Edit button…?

I forgot to mention I am using RR fast and Add F in each batch…

And I sealed the blanks with Patch and Paint and some acrylic paint sprayed on before the lam.

Hey Bartt;

I don’t have much experience to base my findings off of, having just recently done my first epoxy lams also (3 boards with epoxy now). I did find that I ended up using more resin than I expected also though; mixing 6 oz extra is getting standard for me. I also just end up with a fair amount dripped off the rails and a few oz lumped in the bottom of my bucket when it’s all said and done, so maybe a big part of this wastage for me is just bad management while I’m spreading it and soaking the laps. I’m sure someone with more experience will kick in as well, so I will look forward to hearing their 2cents.

All I can really say is; I feel ya brother!

…but isn’t epoxy lam easier than polyester lam?! …I find it waaaaaay sweeter.

It's going to take a few boards,but you'll get it..plus if you have a board with dings have that ready and any extra resin just use it to patch your dings..( you can use epoxy on polyester boards too...) if you need help you can call me at 757-374-0424 i have no problem helping you guys..Ed Townes ( ET )   and don't use Add.F when you lam. just in your hot coats and glosses...good luck

you can lam a 6 oz  side on a short board with 200 grams if you use a brush

thats 7 oz

i easy save 200 grams or more a board, in a small factory that would be a liter or two a week at 50 dollars, and the lam is tight as a drum

save 5,000 a year and it only takes a few mintues more. less air in the lam as well

squeegee are for poly

http://www.facebook.com/v/1116611393467

http://www.facebook.com/v/1116618953656

http://www.facebook.com/v/1116628153886

 

after the resin soaks through the cloth you can pull the cloth and stretch it tight across the board before you brush down the laps
heaps of pricks here will tell you im full of shit, but Huie has been glassing longer then anyone here and he said its fine way to laminate epoxy

http://www.laughingloon.com/epoxy.html

 

boats are a different animal than boards.

but there is a lot of info in the above link that applies well to any epoxy lam.

not squeegee, not brush ....roller.

Thanks for the info guys.

I just chalked it up to inexperience and using 6oz glass (I think most of the published data is using 4oz glass). I’ve done the hot coat now and that worked out just as advertised, I mixed about 8oz of resin for each side and had very little left after brushing it all out and smoothing the rails.

Next board, I’ll try squeegying a little dryer and see if I can wring this out a bit.

I do like working with epoxy, I remember the rush getting PE resin all done before it gel’d and the fumes just about put me down. I’ve been doing all my stuff so far in 80+ degrees (but very low humidity) and have too much time to get it done. I have to force myself to stop messing with stuff and walk away.

Silly & Zfennell - Thanks for the alternate ideas on lam. That’s very intriguing. So do you actually pull the cloth hard enough to stretch it? Or just to conform to the shape? Not quite sure I get it.

Anyway I was pretty nervous when I mixed my first batch of epoxy, but not now…

One more board to go then it’s off to San Diego for some waves.

 

brush or roller. i lke brushes better then roller. less foaming.

Those recommended volumes are for much lighter glassing schedules (ie. 4/4 deck and 4 bottom).  With more cloth you will definitely need more resin.  Always nice to have a little extra resin at the end just in case so don't worry too much about over-shooting until you're looking to make a profit.  It gets exponentially easier the more you do.

Well last night was a nose-bleed. I was glassing the deck of my new 8’ nose rider with a heavy glass schedule (dbl 6 and a 4) cause I want to be able to knee paddle it… I cut the dbl 6 to the rail and free lapped the 4. I figured that 24 oz of epoxy would be plenty WRONG!. It only went about 2/3 of the way to wetting out the deck and there was none left. So I quickly mixed another batch of 12oz and kept working. My lesson from this experience is that 3 layers of glass and epoxy is a PITA to wet out. By the time that I got the rails all wetted out and laps done I was starting to sweat it and the resin was starting to get thick. It’s all good though, I got it done and actually did not waste much epoxy in the process -  I was only able extract a couple of oz of resin in dry squeegying. Checked it this morning and it seems really tough (and pretty light for an 8 footer), I could not dent it with thumb pressure, so I got my knee paddler…

First hot coat (deck) went on this AM, doing the bottom this PM and sanding starts tomorrow. That leaves about 5 days of post cure before these 2 boards hit the water. I can hardly wait, feels like Christmas eve for a 9 year old…:slight_smile:

I've been there.  It's not fun, but the great thing about epoxy is that you can keep working it as it thickens as long as you already saturated your cloth.  I glassed a mini-mal type board with the schedule you used and the board is indestructible.  I feel your pain on the cure time.  I just finished a board I would love to bring with me to OBSF on Monday, but best to not rush the cure so I have to leave it home.

You’re right, it was about 85 in the shop when I started and I still had about an hour of work time. I had to put in decals, a leash plug and haul-ass to laminate that beast. When it started to thicken I almost frecked (cause I still had weave showing along the rails), remembering the old days when I mixed a batch of PE too hot and it went off before I was done… Epoxy is much nicer in this regard, it gives you a gentle warning rather than a slap in the face.

If I don’t hose it completely in sanding, this will actually be a fun board to surf.

 

Sanding is the part of epoxy I can live without.  More work than poly.  Start with 60 grit, but you have to be super careful not to burn through.  Epoxy will get soft as it heats up and it heats up quick when sanding.  Keep that sander moving all over the board and use the other hand to check the surface temp.  Probably want to do the rails by hand the first few time before you get the knack.  Starting with higher grits (80 or 120) heats up too fast and causes problems.  80, 120, 220. 320, 400 wet will give you a nice finish.

Thanks that’s really helpful info,  I’ll keep my eye on that.

I have been doing some touch up as I go with a high speed grinder I use for welding work. I have a small 50 grit pad on it and I just touch and go with it, otherwise I’d be in the foam in nothing flat.

I got a variable speed polisher/sander yesterday to do the softpad sanding, so this will be interesting.

I do remember the old days of wet sanding for hours by hand to get a decent finish. If memory serves I never had the patience to get past 320 before I hit the waves. None of my old boards ever got polished.

Nice work pulling it together!

I recently did an eps/epoxy shortboard that I intend to use at a wave that traditionally beats boards up with lots of rail dings near the nose and tail from getting driven into the rocky bottom over the falls etc. So I did a double 4 oz with a 6 oz deck patch that wrapped just the top half of the rails but went nose to tail. I did the 6 and one four first, and used the technique I read about somewhere else here on sways of wetting out and dry squeegeeing the first two layers, then laying the third on top right away. That way not having to deal with the air bubbles and the trials and tribulations of trying to get the three layers wetted properly without any weird resin bubbles etc.

This way worked great and yielded a super strong feeling board that’s not really much heavier than my other shortboard, despite being way heavier glassed (double 4oz on the bottom too). BUT… I don’t think I’d try this again without another pair of hands to help with laying down that third layer of glass! It was a nightmare, I had trimmed that layer beforehand, thinking that if I rolled it up cleanly and then laid it back in the same place and unrolled it it would just be all lined up. In theory… so of course I didn’t line it up right, i had to pull it towards the nose and then towards one rail so it would wrap the entire lap, etc and so on, it was a close call with resin getting pretty thick but I got it all wetted and the laps tight for the most part. But yeah, trying this in the future I would:

A. have an assistant to help lay out the third layer smoothly.

B. trim the third layer AFTER laying it out on the board to allow for more error.

C. mix a seperate little tub of resin to use on the third layer. As I was using colour in all the panic I muddied up the rails and about 5 inches on each side of the board’s deck while frantically trying to get the glass to lay smooth and get rid of the wrinkles. The colour separation was good before, honest…!

I might get to surf that board next tuesday if the forecast holds true…

At the risk of being laughed out of town here are a couple of pics of my first eps/epoxy boards. Actually these are the first 2 boards I have made in about 30 years now… They are just out of hot coat and not sanded. The first is 8’ x 23.5" (its the one that gave me fits with 3 layers of glass on the deck), the second is 6’11" x 24", they are both pretty thick ~3.5" (I need the floatation at 6’5" and 225)…

 


Those look like nice boards bartt! I especially like the green fishyegg. I’m actually considering doing something pretty similar to that right now, have a couple friends who haven’t surfed too much looking to get boards and one of them was asking what I could make him… was thinking something like that might be good, and fun for when I could borrow it too (though his would be thinner, him being 5’11" and 145 lbs)! I was thinking wood glassons a la bertburger, quad setup, maybe even a bit twinzerish. What are the bottom contours like on those?

Those look like a super fun way to jump back into the boardmaking ring!

Those look like nice boards bartt! I especially like the green fishyegg. I’m actually considering doing something pretty similar to that right now, have a couple friends who haven’t surfed too much looking to get boards and one of them was asking what I could make him… was thinking something like that might be good, and fun for when I could borrow it too (though his would be thinner, him being 5’11" and 145 lbs)! I was thinking wood glassons a la bertburger, quad setup, maybe even a bit twinzerish. What are the bottom contours like on those?

Those look like a super fun way to jump back into the boardmaking ring!

d-oh, sorry that’s a double post. My computer keeps doing that since my hard drive crashed… extra sensitive touchpad setting or something. sorry!

Thanks Bro-

They are both flat with a V in the tail, the fish is very round in the rails, but I kept the rolled edge from the bottom rail band on the 8footer. The fish is a quad and the 8ftr is a long board fin with side bites, that I can reset to a thruster with some different fins, it also has a stepped deck to get some thickness out of the nose. I’ve been longboarding for the last 25 years so it sort of shows. The closest thing I have to a modern short board is a 7’6" single fin gun that I used to ride at El Morrow in baja (had a trailer there for 10 years - nice grinder on 10+ days). Here’s a pic on an 8’ day - the take off spot is just left of the boil…