Ads? What ads? I don’t see a single ad, anywhere on this forum.
It’s 2013. If you are seeing ads you need to get with the program, so to speak.
early on, I had some fisheyes on a board. I seem to have solved that with KK, but here is a saving tip:
I once had dozens of them on the deck of a board. Big and little ones. Panic. But I used 220 grit paper and with one finger wrapped around, took a swipe at each hole. It went quick, really. Then mixed more resin and with a paper cup (no wax) crimped an edge to make it flow narrowly and put a drop on each eye. Saved me a bunch of unpleasant sanding.
What is sterated sandpaper? I’ve alwayed used the expensive stuff at Home Depot. 3X?
thx
Use your brush, and paint on the epoxy hotcoat in 1’ x 1’ patches, lightly scrub with your brush, just for a second. It gets whatever contamination is causing the problem off the board, and into the mix. Onto the next patch. After all covered, do your normal brush strokes.
Your average 6’ board is around 7 square feet. This scrub adds about a minute to the process. Way worth it.
Don’t pour it all out at once, but paint it on.
And three thin hotcoats with only light sanding between is way better than a thick coat. Only add surfacer to the last coat.
In the future, there won’t be any hot coats; so you don’t need to worry about fish-eyes.
halalullya’’ ( huie speak)
a unneceessary evil gone
hows things mike
**cheers huie
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hey huie we’re good. hope all is well for you too.
fark a hotcoat and sanding as well!
that was then, this is now…
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just yesterday I laminated my board with epoxy at about 5 pm, right when the fog starts rolling in here near Santa Cruz CA. When i got back 2 hous ater, the epoxy had arely begun to harden up and had started seperating into fisheye’s. So for me , I believe it was all because of humidity. Thanks for mentioning serated sand paper…have not heard of this yet
Here is my take on fish-eyes- Fish eyes are definately caused by contamination . It can be from the oils in your skin, car exhaust , poslihing compund floating in the air amongst other things. Here is how i combat it …
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Always wash your hands before handling the board once board had been laminated better yet wear some gloves!
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never do any polishing around laminated epoxy board or boards that have been racked
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dont even think about glassing in a garage near the road , exhaust fumes contain oil and surely it will get on your lamination
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a little pre -sand before hot coating with epoxy from than wash your hands and straight to glassing
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smoke that funny shit outside. that has oils in it as well
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use hot coat additives such as additive F or fibeglass hawaii epoxy surfincin agent usually 2% to every 100 grams of epoxy
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The guys that wipe their boards with xylene or denatured alcohol are on the right track but this is not necessary with certain epoxy systems and glassing enviroments they are merely using solvents to wipe off contamination if you think about it so go back to steps 1-5 …
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Do not put to much additive f or FGH Epoxy surfacing agent , your epoxy will never harden enough to sand and you have screwed yourself
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If you do get a few seperations or fish eyes you can still save your hot coat- take a razor blade scrape the fish eye really well - apply more hot coat resin
10 . lets go back to step 6 - lemme expalin epoxy surfacing agent - it is merely parrifin wax , and xylene - what the xylene does is quite similar to the guys that clean there boards with xylene first or denatured alcohol . the wax helps as a aid in sanding epoxy… the right sandpaper of course always helps … alluminium oxide is the call . some resin systems require no surfacing additives so consult the supplier for questions .
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last trick tip - I like to hot coat in a air conditioned room , epoxy is so humidity sensitive its like a berometer. In my early stages glassing in regular conditions is unpredictable , expecially in tropical enviroments …
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When you reach success in hot coating feel free to send me donations. I am a poor old board builder who is always looking for a good meal ! Aloha a hui ho !!
I do it exactly like Petey… except at the sanding stage, I don’t call it sanding. I call it “scratching.” You’re not trying to remove material… just scratching the surface of the lam. I go diagonally both ways across the weave, ONCE, with 80 grit on a soft block. I haven’t had a fisheye in years.
While surface contamination can cause fisheyes, I think the biggest contributor to resin separation is surface tension (resin properties). Do this, take a sanded surfboard and apply a layer of epoxy on it with a brush with no additive F on one side of the stringer. Mix up another batch with Add F in it and apply to the other side. See which one has fisheyes.
On a recent build (glassed using Resin Research Epoxy), I was thinking about this thread before fill coating the bottom. I took it into the sanding bay, scuffed the bottom and cleaned up the laps, wiped it off with my bare hands, took it into the glassing room, taped it off and fill coated as normal (with Additive F). Not a single fisheye. Disclaimer: This is by no means a recommendation on how to fillcoat using epoxy!
One thing I’ve found in fill coating is that on the initial brushout, there is usually separation, if that happens I just go back over it until it “grabs” and stays in place, usually just a couple more passes with the brush than a normal poly hotcoat would take. As others have mentioned, if there’s a fisheye forming after brushout, just put a drop of resin in the middle of it and that usually takes care of it.
H Surfthis- Yes I can agree surfcae tension is also a contributing factor to surface tension. But also I have had success with NO pre-sanding at all by using basic steps of a clean environment and using additive F or fgh epoxy surfacing agent. In theory when pre sanding you are taking away strentgh of the board by pre sanding ( we are all trying to build a solid product) and try to stay away from this for a valid reason . Also when trying to hotcoat epoxy we all are looking for better results in the finish - the less bumps the better for sanding if you catch my drift. Besides in theory how could one possibly sand every nook and cranny in a epoxy lam without missing some shinnies?
I think we all have to look deeply on how additive f or fgh epoxy surfacing agents work -a simple xylene plus wax solution added to epoxy mixed at a proper ratio will do this effect:
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As the epoxy gets painted on the board I beleive the xylene eats up contamination to a cetain extent provided yo have not greased the board with oily dirty hands - thats cool if you have pre sanded and grabbed /or wiped down the board with your bare hands( all the sanding that you have done most probably took all the oil off yor hands anyway) . Once the resin has sat for a few the xylene will actually exit the epoxy and than evaporate. the wax rises to the top as well to make your sanding easier without clogging paper.
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I have to say Surthis method of going over with a brush may work in most cases to remove some fisheyes but major ones will never go away unless you scrape with a blade -and more resin and brush out again.
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there is also something that has to do with letting resin sit in the pot for a few minutes before hot coating , do a test try to mix batch and hot coat straightaway vs. doing a mix and waiting a few minutes . It depends on the epoxy , careful with the fast systems when doing this method.
anyways I hope this knowledge has become helpful. and everyone who enjoys working with epoxy has better results. thanks fo the interesting topic.
Hey Petey, to be clear, I’m not sanding the bottom to finish it out, only to scuff it a bit as a precaution so the resin has something to grab. Not trying get all the shinies, just a bit of a key for the epoxy to grab. According to GL’s explanation, the epoxy does a bit of chemical etching to gain bond (if I understood correctly), so it’s likely an uneccessary step, but I do it out of habit and only the bottom if I had to wait too long to flip it and fill coat it. The deck usually gets fill coated as soon as the lamination has kicked enough.
As I said, I hit it with the sander and dusted it off with my bare hands. I’ve done maybe a couple hundred epoxies with very few issues. Like Stingray says, if you follow the methods prescribed by Greg Loehr, you can’t go wrong.
Your theory about the xylene cleaning the grease may be true, but there’s such a small amount I doubt that it works that way. As I understand it, the xylene is there to prevent blush, maybe there’s the added benefit of the solvent/degreaser as well?
Going bakc and brushng back over the board does work in most cases. However, when a fisheye wants to resist, I use GL’s method and rub a gloved finger over it with a good amount of pressure then scrub it in with the brush and brush it out after that. It rarely happens if you put in enough Additve F to the mix. If that doesn’t take care of it, then I’ll babysit the job and drip resin onto the spot and watch it until the resin starts to kick.
Main thing is to do what works for you and make the best board you can, that’s all any of us can hope for!
I think you may be right, this isn’t for RR users. Additive F or “Qwiksand” from the Surf Source in Florida are more than surfacing agents as their main function is to prevent blush. Greg Loehr can explain why the xylene with wax doesn’t affect bonding better than I can.
I agree with the discoloration comment, I wouldn’t advise using either additive in tints or over a board with a dark colored airbrush as the multi layers of cloth and resin tends to get a bit milky, especially on the rails.
RR with their fast hardener works great for me from lamination to fill coat (even the occasional gloss coat) using either Add F or Qwiksand every step of the way.
BTW, I don’t think you have to worry about turning 4 oz cloth into 1 oz unless you’re really getting on it with the sander, but I guess that’s up to the individual. For those worried about taking off too much cloth, either don’t sand it with a sander or just hit it with some 100 grit by hand. Just a scuff doesn’t cause problems.