I think the still photos of this have been on here before. The animated view is kind of interesting…
Howzit John, Looks like a simple way to put the concave in. Did the whole area delam? Aloha,Kokua
Or, is it Okinawan hand hardening training?
It’s ‘posed to do that…it’s a Paul Gross/GG edge board. Not carbon fiber. Don’t know what it is made of but the spoon deck is reinforced in the mid section at rails w/unidirectional fiber and also down the middle in the tail before the rubber dam part. High aspect single fin. Tail very flexy as is the center/concave. The rest fairly stiff. 5’ X 19 1/2". I touched it…
Flex concave - concave on demand
Think in terms of Greg Loehr’s comment
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The dolphin reference… bingo. Soft, but firm, more compliant bottom surface. That’s the shock absorbing nature of the flex I’m talking about which leads to better control and more speed. In a dolphin that compliant surface is supported underneath by a skeleton and muscle. We are supported by the frame. Like a tennis racket, the frame provides much of the return and most the stiffness. The frame carries the load. The strings transfer the energy stored in the frame. They also store some energy themselves through elasiticity. Imagine a tennis racket with a wimpy frame. You’d get tons of flex but no return. Your ability to create power and ball speed would be comprimised. Again, look at the Greenough spoon. That’s the most obvious example. Creating and controlling speed is what it’s all about here.
Some images that display this a little better. Keep in mind the forces at work in the water - impossible to simulate on dry land. It is interesting trying to understand and explain things that you’ve always taken for granted.
http://flexspoon.com/pics/all_flex/index.html
Note: In the pics at the link above I am STANDING not stomping on the bottom. Would you stomp on a 25+ year old flexible piece of fiberglass? With a little more pressure the deck would touch the floor.
hi George !
what are your thoughts on a stand up version ?
Do you think it would work as well as the lower centre of gravity kneeboarders version ?
cheers !
ben
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hi George !
what are your thoughts on a stand up version ?
Hey Ben, perimeter stringer? I think Bert Burger is most likely doing this. Probably also varing the skin(s) core thickness throughout the length or width for different flex patterns too.
…and in a short wide , spoon-like setup ?
…who does those for standing up on , I wonder ?
I’ve never tried one of those spoon kneeboards. But I can’t help but think about how it might work, with the top of each knee to foot length able to weight and de-weight on the deck, to create different bottom contours as you ride. Very soulful on the right wave I’m sure.
crystal voyager shows that very very well …especially the ‘sandspit’ footage !
My apologies , Run [rabbit run] …
you have made a few of these for standing on , haven’t you ?
Care to share your latest findings ?
cheers mate !
ben
never made a standup version but the answer is out there for a modern hard off the tail shortboard style using variable shape in the form of gg’s windsurfer false tails.
i’ve been waiting for someone to make one but will have to make myself one someday - dead str8 tail rocker from midboard on the laminate whilst the fixed false deck has a bunch of tail rocker (3-4"!??!?) , thruster, dead straight traditionally templated rail fins that bend and torque into a pre-mediated toe and cant when in a turn, the stiff false deck will have dual quarter inch marine ply stringers for rigidity while the bottom will be pure laminate carbon and s-glass epox 4-10 layers of 4 oz prem-meditated where u want the stiffness/flex to be.
The next logical progression to give the best surfers the most freedom on a wave in varied conditions - curves in a turn and straight for flat spots -
will never catch on as too labor intensive plus MODERN SURFING IS DRIVEN BY PROFIT MOTIVATED MEDIA FLASH OVER SUBSTANCE, CONSUMER DEMOGRAPHICS MUST BE CONTROLLED AND FED SO THAT PROFITS MAY BE CHANNELLED INTO MEANINGLESS EXCESS. SPECTATORSHIP IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PARTICIPATION IN A WHORE SOCIETY. PEOPLES SURFING AND SHAPING ARE DRIVEN BY LONGING FOR ACCEPTPANCE IN A SOCIAL GROUP (swaylocks? the nssa? the wct?) AS OPPOSED TO A PERSONAL LOVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SEA JUST PASSING THROUGH TRYING TO FIND A LITTLE PEACE VAGABOND
and so forth
Since I’ve never ridden standup or even foam and glass kneeboards I really don’t know anything. Maybe copy Greenough’s windsurfing boards
http://www.georgegreenough.com/pages/024.htm
And flexman made a model of one.
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But I can't help but think about how it might work, with the top of each knee to foot length able to weight and de-weight on the deck, to create different bottom contours as you ride.
That’s what you have to work around. Before you know it we’ll all realize that being prone on a mat gives us the largest contact area to affect the contour of the vehicle(mat).
Plus the paddling issue. The board in the pics does not float - it sinks.
forgot this from Greg Loehr:
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" This is simple. Water in a wave is moving up the face. Concave creates lift by capturing and redirecting the water toward the tail rather than letting it slip off the rail, like a vee. When in a bottom turn the bottom of the board is presented to the water traviling up the face. Your pressing on the deck and the water is pressing against the bottom. If you sqeezee a bar of soap the bar travels perpendicular to the force. Same thing happens here, and we call it drive. Concave captures more force and pushes this force towards the tail more effectivly than any other bottom shape. Therefore concaves have the best drive and accelleration. The only way performance surfboards could have ended up as small (in volume) as they are is by being very effective at accelleration. Concaves are one of the main aspects that have allowed this progression. "
concaves on the bottom , concave spooned deck too , then ?
how thick a board would we be talking about here ?
how many layers of cloth minimum , or how much foam left in , to still float and paddle well for me a 5’10 , 140-145lb surfer ?
anyone ?
for standing on , remember ?
George , Greg , Run … would you like to take a punt ?
I’d be thinking 6’ x ? 20 x ??" probably a fairly wide squaretail ?
epoxy and carbon fibre ? with 6oz over the top ?
conjecture , at the moment , but it’s still nice to get feedback / thoughts / people’s experience[s] of similar projects …
thanks !
ben
flexspoon- where did you score the edge board??? please don’t tell me you got it at some yard sale for 50 bucks!
Matt - what’s up w/ the 3 Andrienni’s (SP) @ the Beach House’s used room. One looks like Kirks, ones a bisect, one standard. All Diplacement Hulls. Kirk’s has a nice glass on flexy.
Nicely priced as well.
epac- i believe those are all andreinni’s personal boards-i know the bisect one is …he said the bisect works great!