Foam Collapse????

General Discussion
1

We had a complaint from a shaper that the foam turned yellow at the tip and tail as well as along the

stringer AFTER the blank was shaped and glassed.

Have you ever seen this phenomenon?

We suspect that it is related to resin penetration into the blank.

Chemically, we have no explanation but suspect that it has something to

do with the catalyst used for activating the fiberglass resin.

We have also heard random complaints of foam collapse in select areas in

the final board. The entire board will be perfect and then the next day

a small section along one edge, at the tip or even in the dead center of

the board will collapse overnight. The cause appears to be completely

random as we have people surfing on board made with our chemistry today.

For example, we had 1 blank out of 50 have a “cave-in” with no

explanation why. We suspect that it was poor mix or off-ratio mix in

the foam blank itself but we have no proof as we have not seen a board

exhibit this phenomenon yet.

Any ideas? Have you seen this phenomenon as well?

As usual, any help or guidance you can provide would be greatly

appreciated.

2

Funny you mention that, because the very same thing happened to me only a few days ago: shaping as usual, glassing as usual, nothing went wrong. I went out to clean gloves and squeegee then came back to see if everything was OK and it was. One and a half hour later, when I came back for cutlaps, here’s what I found:

The blank was replaced and I was offered two more as compensation. But my work was lost…


3

Incomplete mixing of the foam components is the likely reason for isolated collapsed areas, and you are spot on about the yellowing being caused by too much catalyst in the glue up resin. ie: Mixed too hot. Heated glueup area, or pre heating the resin in hot water, so that less catalyst is needed for a quick setup time, may solve the problem. Saw the same situation years ago with Clark Foam in '65/'66, and Popoff Foam in '71.

4

have seen some of these start up companies blanks yellow and shrival to turds. no better feeling than paying to be a test pilot and ruining your own business in the process. And there are explantions as to why they are caving in and collapsing but those are best left up to chemical engineers .

5

I paid $50 each for 2 fish blanks here in San Diego from a start-up foam place

shaped one for the best man in my wedding

3 weeks later, the bottom of the board had gone from a slight concave nose and V tail to a radical bonzer without sidefins

the company explained that I got a blank that had not been “cured”

they cook out the gasses so that it doesn’t create a vacuum once glassed

they offered me one blank to replace the one i lost and to cure the other

I thought it was a problem with the UV cure resin or the tint i used

oh well, i guess someone had to figure it out

6

gee a whole blank! what about the cost that were also incurred resin cloth fins time.

7

yeah, all the way from the nose to the tail

almost 1/4" deep grooves on either side of the stringer

probably $75 in glass/resin/wood for the fin

quite a bit of work

the board is ridable now, but if it gets any worse, then it will be a wall hanger

he originally said he would give me 2 extra blanks to make up for it, but now only one and “cure” the other unshaped blank

8

Funny, you mention that,

I just shaped the last of the three blanks I got from a place in Sorrento Valley ( I think the same company you are talking about) First two were fine, and this one collapsed after I laminated it. It was fine after shaping, but once glassed the tail shriveled up and made a bunch of pressure dings in it

-chris

9

I tell you what , they will not be in business very long if that keeps happening, who wants to ruin their hard earned reputation over crappy cores. but thats just me

10

Maybe you guys could help some of us out and name some names? I’m looking to maybe get some blanks but if the maker doesn’t have consistent quality, I’d rather know in advance.

Thanks!

11

I just talked to the company, and they said all the blanks they sold in the first 6 months were R&D and they learned a lot from them. He said the blanks need to be baked in an oven to cure and release all the gases, and the one I got wasn’t cured. He told me that if I brought down the board, he would replace the blank

Sorry, I don’t know th name of the company, I talked to the samy guy the whole time

-chris

12

I had the same problem and i got the blank replaced and it happened again its obvious these guys dont have the true answers and the chemist wouldnt know either or it would be fixed.Blanks degassing ? oven cure ?seems like a great smoke screen for i dont know!!!

EXCUSES!!! EXCUSES!!!

3 strikes your out.

Not something I want to invest my future in.Reputation is everything in this game.

The local stuff is average ,Best to import till some one gets an act.The Australian blank guys leave this stuff for dead and there established.I got my first delivery and its been a dream.They seem to have all the answers and obviously understand quality control something the start ups have all seemed to miss.

There is only a few people in the world that hold the secrets and there the guys who have been doing it for a long time.

13

Know the secrets? Been doing it a long time? Understand quality control? Oh, that would be WALKER FOAM !!!

Don’t panic if there isn’t a close tolorance blank within an inch of the board you want to make. Actually SHAPE the blank

to create the board you want to produce. The quality of the core is second only to the quality of the shape. A well

shaped board, with a sound core, even with a bad glass job, will still perform well. The above comments are not directed

at any individual, but made as a general observation.

edit: For the record, I’ve shaped Walker Foam since 1960.

14

I agree, I have heard only good thing about walker foam. So that’s what I will use in the future, at least for now

-chris

15

still haven’t named the company grin

just say you don’t want to name it to cover for them . . . I guess would be to wait until they get it down . . . some companies have an edge up . . . like the Clark Mk II (us blanks) or american blanks, or walker . . .

Still it pisses me off that companies would put out a product they are freakin unsure of and have someone pay their hard earned money to buy a piece of junk.

its like that junk that Ford pulled in 70’s with the pintos that would blow up if rear ended with X and X force, speed, and direction of it . . . Ford pulled their lawyers, engineers and statisticians and realized the reason was with a $5 fuel system part. They calculated cost of doing a recall and replacing parts and re doing the assembly line for that model would be much more than the legal penalties paid since the pinto were mainly bought by people (low income, blue collar etc) that would not think to sue or think that it could be something wrong with the car blowing up.

Until someone complained . . . then Ford got nailed.

But this may / may not be how Ford runs its operations today. I don’t keep current with car industries . . .

But its shit like that Enron thing just make you enraged. Or with LASIK . . . now its ok, but the early lasers / techniques and the patients they’ve affected with severe complications. Man . . .

16

Hey CardiffChris,

Yup, that is the place, i talked to them again today and i’m going to take the shaped blank in for “curing”.

I don’t remember the name of the company either, but i’ll post later after I get back from dropping it off.

money doesn’t grow on trees, but i guess neither do cheap blanks, i’m definitely going with a more proven foam from now on

how many blanks total did you get from them?

what was your success rate with “good” ones?

were they the fish or the 6’8"

17

Hiro— I seem to remember in another thread that you said you were looking for some “seconds”. Sounds like this company may have quite a few.

18

I’ve talked to them too, but fortunately waited to buy blanks.

They are http://www.petritech.com/

19

good for you

i just got back, he gave me another “cured” blank and said

“yeah we have a whole new formula, we aren’t making blanks like that anymore”

I said:"oh yeah? so this is the old foam?

“yeah, but it has been cured”

great, pass off the old crap rather than try and create a good business relationship…smart

so i shaped the other blank yesterday

today i take it in and the foam around the stringer has already sunken in and there is a big bubble on the deck

can’t wait to see what it looks like coming out of the oven

still a bit pissed off about the money spent glassing the other one

20

I got a 40 'container, few years ago from Benett Australia, all the boards collapses, it was the worst nightmare for a shaper.

I’m hope they fix the problems, we will see more and more unstable foam on the market, as new foam maker

want to produce as many blanks they can.

I prefer to use the manufacturer have at least more then 5 years in foam making.

We should be paid to experiment the new foam not the opposite

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