Garage Shapers, What Do You Think ??

So I have this " magic board " and I wanted it duplicated. I took it to the person who has been shaping my boards for a long long time. This person shall remain nameless, but he is a pretty well known shaper, especially here in Newport/Costa Mesa area. Anyway, I took it to him, he wrote down the measurements. I insisted he keep the board with him while he shapes the other, I love the original board. He says no no I don’t have room in my bay for another board just sitting there. I asked him to make sure he got al the notes on the board, yeah you can get measurements, but the rails are a certain way, rocker, bottom contour, where fin boxes are placed…etc etc. Oh yeah I got it, alright I tell him. Well after two weeks, I go to the glass shop to drop off my spray job and the fricken board is nothing at all like the original, and it is set up for a quad when I wanted a thruster. I call him, and express my concerns, he assures me I will like the board and he changes the fins. Well you can see where this is going, I hated it. So I sold it an recouped most of my money.

The original board was made as a personal board from a differant  shaper for himself. After he rode it, he gave it to a friend of mines father in law. He broke a fin out, got it fixed and gave it to my friend. My friend broke another fin out got it fixed and later gave it to me. I broke a fin out twice and snapped it in two. The took it to the Mentawais and snapped 3 inches off the nose, got all that fixed. It is still my favorite board.

I was telling some of my friends that are managers of a surf shop. One of their dads shapes out of his garage. So we all met the next morning surfed and I showed him the board. He said oh yeah, let me have a crack at it. He thinks that the guy who shapes my boards ( or maybe used to ) just plugged the numbers in a CAD machine and called it a day. He was thinking that it needs to be done by hand. I agree, I tried shaping and damn… not good results. Charges me less and I get my board in 5 days !!! I go pick it up and sh*t me, it is close. I have not surfed it yet, no waves and heavy rain coming with the waves. So it might be in a couple days.

So after hearing my story, did I make a good decision ( I guess depends on how the board rides ), and what does everybody think of " garage shapers " ? Any good or bad stories or experience ? 

Lippy,

Most pro shapers I know, (me included) started as a ''garage shaper'' in the beginning.   Most, not all, but most design ''breakthroughs'' also came about through the efforts of garage shapers.   Steve Lis, and the Fish, come immediately to mind.   So, I don't think you made an error.   If the board looks close, as you state, it will probably be close in performance.   your big test will be to ride the board.   I hope the board is so close to your expectations, that you are happy with it.   I have made a great many ''magic boards'' for myself, and others, and yet have never been able to reproduce a magic board, and I've tried.   The boards were very good, even great, just not magic like the originals.    So, if the board is not magic on the first ride, don't dispair, play with the fins, and see if you can dial it in.

Plugging numbers into a cad program will make a good copy if you provide all the numbers needed for a good model. You can make a copy with a cad program. It's just that 97% of Shapers who use cad do not use it correctly. That's why CNC as such a bad rap on Sways. Just look at the post of Crafty on CNC Fiasco which stirred a lot of heated debate. Guy's get the free down loads and start shaping with the computer without looking at the model in G-Code. This is failure waiting to happen. Free programs are limited.

Digitally Scanning a board is the way to really copy a board. I'm sure the guy did not own his own machine that did not meet your expectations. Your statement is more of a general accessment of an unskilled cad user. He most likely did not measure foil thickness or rocker.

The garage guy most likey took better measurements. It's the work ethic more than it is the method. I'm glad the garage guy did well. There is no difference were you make you boards only the TLC that goes into them regardless of Machine or Electric Planner.

The thing about garage hobbyists is that even if they can't get it perfect, they have more time and less pressure to get it close. 

If I'm a pro looking at a retail shop order for 40 boards due by the end of next week, I'm more likely to do it 'my way' rather than 'your way' on a one-off custom I squeeze in. 

Pro custom shaper or garage hobbyist - very few can  shape a repro board perfectly. Ask anyone who has tried to have a 'magic'  board duplicated.

That is certainly one argument for going the Surftech route.  Aside from a few models that have been discontinued, each design is readily available through one of their dealers if you break your old one.    

 

It's the work ethic more than it is the method. I'm glad the garage guy did well. There is no difference were you make you boards only the TLC that goes into them regardless of Machine or Electric Planner.

This sums up the whole machine/hand shaper argument completely i think.

 

Go the garage bloke!!. I think john makes a point, the garage bloke has hours of time to spend on it.

I tried the production route cutting 120 boards a week. So thankless!

Garage guy's are cool as long as they keep there prices up and they should.

Basically I'm just a garage guy who has a machine. No more production cutting.

Custom boards only.

The big brands do a great job and we should never hate on them. They have their place. Garage guy's can't make 10's of 1,000's of boards needed for the worlds surfing population.

However if you want personalized service the custom board builder is the way to go!

I don’t trust any of those “garage” guys…

You’re so right, Afoaf.

Especially the ones that use blue foam and epoxy inside of a bag.

 

 

Lippy your experience with the pro shaper is exactly why I make my own these days. “Yeah sure I will make your new board like this one you are showing me” - then you get whatever they feel like making. I’m sure there are plenty of pro shapers who will slow down and actually study a board you like carefully enough to reproduce most of the features of that board, but IMHO there are too many bro bras who just bang out shapes.

I’ve only made a handful of boards but each has been based off of a board that works, and I’ve very carefully duplicated rocker, planshape, rails, bottom contours, etc. - with only minor tweaks made to ensure that the new board works at least similarly to the baseline board. I’ve had great results this way - both with my personal boards and ones I’ve made for friends.

Stoked that the Garage guy took care of ya, hope the board rips.

Bedrooms are so much better than garages. But if you have to make boards in your carport, just rename it “the studio” and you’ll sound so much cooler when talking on the phone “Oh yeah, I’m at the studio right now working on some curves…”

Bill, Thats what I told a friend of mine who was skeptical of this shaper. I told him, crap don’t most shapers start out that way, in a garage ? So why not give him a shot, at least I know he will take time shaping it and he really understands what I want, and he wanted me to leave the original board with him. The first shaper who tried to duplicate has been shaping my boards since we were out of high school so what is that… crap I am old. Nah I am 40, so he has been shaping my boards for 20 years plus. Thanks for the hoping I will like it, I am sure I will. I know it will not ride exactly to the T like my old one but from the looks and like you said there are so many fins out now, I might need to play with it a few times.  

Surfding, you bring up a point that could be a whole differant thread. Garage shapers keeping their prices up, and they should. He charged me just like 65 bucks less than my "pro shaper ". So that got me thinking… If he is a garage shaper, with no name out in the industry, should he not charge way less that the pro shapers. So in this economy crap 65 - 70 bucks anyone can use and I was most appreciative of the deal. Second, hell no they should not charge way less than the pro shaper. I did not mind spending almost what my other guy charges me who does have a name out their in the industry. I knew in my mind, he was going to take the time. Also, the way I think of it, lets say he charges $275.00 for  aboard, glassed and all. Well word is going to go around like bees to honey that their is this shaper who is a good shaper, can duplicate a board, a very nice guy, and you get your board way way faster than the other guy. Well wouldn’t everybody start ordering boards from him and that would leave the one who does this for a living with his ding dong in one hand and his CAD or planner in the other ?? So hell no I did not mind spending almost what I usually get boards for from a garage shaper. Just food for thought I guess, thanks for the reply. 

So to Afoaf, Srpato, and Balsa,

 

 Why ?? Why do you not like garage shapers, or don’t trust them ?

 

ditto!

Over the decades, countless times the shaper accepted the $$ but passed

on fulfilling requirements.

Most people have the same shared exp. of the ‘non-custom’ custom

or the barely attempted duplicate, or change ‘one thing’ but you get back the same board

as before. The sheer waste of money adds up. You might as well learn to shape

and learn from the wasted dollars.

 

I finally had one really great shaper, magic boards galore, then he went to pot, literally

and figuratively. That prompted my second entry into shaping again but this time with

CNC and professional glassing.

My answer to Afoaf was supposed to be humour as I supposed that he, too, was kidding.

Not so long ago, I was a garage shaper and I guess that although I am now “official”, paying taxes and insurance and things, I am still a garage shaper. What else would you call a guy who builds less than a hundred boards a year?

So, nothing against them. As has been said, pretty much all big names in the industry started out like that and many innovations came from them. Besides, garage shapers are looking for recognition and they know how one angry customer can ruin their reputation very fast, so they probably care more than people who think they’re on top of it. The only thing is, you’ve got to play the game: once you have established a basic business, you should play the rules of business. Problem: where does the boundary lie, exactly?

If anyone wants to ride the exactly same board as your last, choose from a bunch of big companies Model boards till you find the one that suits you best. Stick to it; get it every time, time and time again (provided they don’t change the model AND from the machine it came from). You’ll be doing the same reo, same cutback each and every surf! Personally, your surfing learning curve is not going to progress quickly along with your understanding of surfboard board shapes this way, But you will be riding waves with a smile and confidence. It’s like buying anything that is mass-produced, it’s mass produced for a reason, usually its proven and not a dog, very, very similar each time, most of the time.

Every surfboard has something to offer, If you work closely, communicate well, and are both passionate about the progression of your surfing, Three steps forward two steps backwards maybe the progress from the “garage shaper”, I’m sure he doesn’t want to shape you a dog-try not run away on each downward step.  If he’s a gifted shaper, progression may be three steps forward one step backwards. At the end of the Day, (Year/Decade) You will be a lot better surfer and understand design a whole lot more, you will have climbed so much higher.

Now, if you can find a GOOD machinist that has the time and desire to work closely with you. You can progress at a staggering rate. They, the MACHINES, are here for a reason!

As for magic boards, have you noticed they always seem to snap, ding, get run over, it’s like their cheeky little bastards! For me any way! And I’m addicted to making new boards for myself. And the good ones have character! Keep em as a reference remember the good times. But say good-bye!!!

Lippy, sound like your old mate was a tripper, you got a quad!

Good luck in finding your NEW magic board, I hope “garage man” nailed it for you.

…Go the “studio shaper’s”

Yorky

 

 

I'll share my experience with a local shaper. Been around a long time, shaped a lot of boards. I asked him for round nose, square tailed shrunken longboard, i also told him how i wanted it to surf, and the wave range i'd be surfing it in.

 

 I pick it up, and its got a narrowish rounded nose, and a wide round tail, and is more of a hybrid nugget type shape. Looks good though, just not what i expected. Anyway, i surf it, and its faaaarken unreal, and is now my current favourite. It turns insane for a 7'10'' board, but still trims from up the front.

 

I've had it for months now, and im still not sure if its a good experience, or a bad one. On one hand, the board isn't what i asked for ( specifically asked for a round nose, square tail shrunk down longboard ), but on the other hand it surfs exactly how i wanted it to, and it is an excellent board!!.

 

Just my experience.

It’s now your current favourite but your not sure if it’s a good experience?

Fair call dean!, Yep, a good experience!. I definately didn't get upset a week or so ago when i carved the  board around and back into the foam!!.