Getting Started: HELP!

General Discussion
1

OK, lets get this started.  Anyone with suggestions and help to the first timer, post up.  Guys with “first-board” questions, post up.  This is not a sticky thread.  This is not a locked thread.  It will stay on top as long as it remains relevant.  Let’s go.  

What do you say about how to get started?  Where to do I get a blank?  Should I buy a kit?  A video?  What tools are necessary, can I shape with a sanding block and a cheese grater?  I want a cool logo, how do I make one and get it under the glass?  Uh-oh, my resin kicked too soon,  I have fish eyes.  My laps look like crap.  What’s a cut-lap?

This could be a thread like the resin tints thread, or the what are you working on thread, it could just go on and on.  And anyone new would have one thread to occupy themselves for as long as they want (or we could just send them to Surfer Steve… who is also a Swaylockian by the way), or they could just post up and ask the same questions again and again, that’s cool, it keeps the thread on page one.

Or not.  It could just die and fade away.  Its up to you.

2

“we could just send them to Surfer Steve”

 

I wouldn’t. I disagree with many of his ideas.

3

yeah, that was kinda tongue in cheek, just a reference to another comment on another thread, “I also think it can be overwhelming for a noob to be thinking about a first board and finding information on compsands and resin swirls and other things better left for later. If someone asks me about the basics I end up refering them to Surfer Steve for Stephen’s basic overview of making one’s first homemade surfboard. Could we also acheive a record of the basics here at Sway’s?”

4

I’m past the noobie stage more into the toddler stage of shaping. If some of what I write is wrong edit away and correct me! Ill do my best but I am in no way a master of anything.

Types of blanks: EPS, XPS, PU, and Wooden.

  • Wooden: blanks should not be your first blank if you are just starting. You should be confident with all your tools and have a good understanding of woodworking before trying one of these. Wooden blanks come in all different types of woods. Companies like Grain Surfboards sell complete kits ready to assemble. Other people make their own solid or hollow blanks with many different methods. Google around and you will find blogs and sites dedicated to either hollow or solid wooden surfboard construction.
  •  Expanded Polystyrene - (EPS): these blanks are newer. They are Epoxy based and should be used with Epoxy resin systems. PU type resins will melt this type of foam. These blanks come in a uniform density throughout making shaping easier. You can cut a lot off the deckside and not worry about dings later on. These blanks resemble the beaded packing foam that comes with heavy items that are shipped places.
  •  Polyurethane – (PU): The oldest type of manufactured blank. These have been around the longest and are time tested and proven. Most shapers use these. These blanks are not a uniform density. The outermost layer is the shell. About 1/4 “ in from that shell is the hardest foam on the board with the foam getting softer and softer towards the center. These blanks are easiest to find and accept color the best out of any type of foam. They should be used with PU type resins.
  • Extruded Polystyrene – (XPS): This is the cheapest foam to use. Cheap for a reason. You can get it in sheets from Home Depot and Lowes. The pink/green/blue stuff made by Dow. This is great because it’s cheap and you can mess with it if you are uncertain about forking out the cash for a more expensive production made blank like PU or EPS. This foam is known to be temperamental and is most likely not worth glassing. Use this stuff for just trying out shaping and maybe glassing if you want practice.

Getting a blank: stop in a local surfshop and ask the owner if he can order one for you. Look around for companies who sell XPS or EPS for buildings and construction, sometimes they will sell blocks that you can cut up into blanks.

I have broken down resins into two types. Sanding, and Laminating. Any type of resin you use will utilize BOTH types of resin. Laminating is used to lay up layers of fiberglass with a squeegee. This resin dries tacky and usually cannot be sanded without having your sandpaper gum-up. Epoxy is the exception, it does not dry tacky and can be sanded at any stage. Sanding resin is Lam resin but with additives that make it dry, well dry. This is the type of resin that can be sanded, and is used for Hot Coats or Sanding coats only. Sanding resin cannot be used for laminating boards with fiberglass or any other material.

  Variations of Resin: There are a few types and subgroups to each like vinylester resin which I wont explain as they are out of the scope of most glasses and probably most new guys. All resins will slowly degrade in the UV              rays over the years. Resin systems sometimes will have Optical brighteners and UV stabilizers to slow this process

  Polyurethane Resins – (PU): Working time varies a lot depending on the temperature and how much catalyst you used. This resin is used on PU blanks. This resin is commonly used and accepts color the best. Its mostly              used with the catalyst Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide or MEKP. Mixing charts are available online and are done by weight, percentage, CC’s, really any measurement you prefer.

               PU sanding resin- Some companies will sell premixed sanding resin. Most people will mix there own sanding resin by adding surfacing agent which is essentially wax and styrene that as I understand makes a layer on                  top of the resin that is hard and sandable.

              PU UV cure resin- I love this stuff. No mixing, no measuring, and anything that you don’t use you can use another time! Basically unlimited working time. However! This resin will dry in 20secs in direct sunlight. Even in                   shade the resin will slowly start to kick. The Gel stage is very very short, making this resin less than ideal for color work and cutlaps. If you decide to do color work, you will need to catalyze this resin because sun won’t                 penetrate the color through the glass.

Epoxy Systems – Working time is much longer then that of PU resin. This resin does not accept color as well as PU systems. The common catalyst doesn’t really exist. Each system comes with its own hardener. I’m not sure if this is chemically similar to MEKP or any other Epoxy hardener. Epoxy doesn’t need to be worked into the fiberglass. When you pour on your resin, your only job is too spread it around and make it even. Epoxy sinks through and into the fiberglass weave, while PU needs to be worked in by hand. Epoxy is much more finicy. Its very touchy to temps and mixing ratios. Exotherms are a big problem with epoxy systems. Epoxy when mixed with its hardener is an exothermic reaction. It gives off a substancial amount of heat. I’ve heard horror stories of the stuff catching fire in the pot when it’s being mixed. This exothermic reaction can cause problems with air bubbles and even burning. I’m not sure how people avoid these problems, but lots and lots of people use epoxy without any problems. Google around and I’m sure you’ll find ways to avoid these problems I’ve mentioned.

                     Epoxy Sanding Resin- Epoxy can be sanded whenever you want. No need for sanding resin like in PU systems. You can use additives like Additive F to make layup easier and sanding even easier.

 

 

Getting glassing supply’s: Boating stores. Boat building stores. Local surfshops. Ask them all if they can get you a gallon or two of PU or Epoxy & the appropriate hardener(s). For your first board and even boards after that I prefer UV cure resins for clear or one color boards. If you can get your hands on a gallon of SunCure or Solarez then try it out. You’ll get a practically infinite working time when you are out of the UV rays, and no worries about mixing correctly for temperature, batches, color, sanding, ect

            Fiberglass: This stuff is way complicated so ill quickly go over it. The most common layup is two 4oz layers on top and one on the bottom. Fiberglass is rated in an Ounce system. 1oz fiberglass will hold 1oz of resin per               square yard of material. Higher the ounce number up to a point the stronger the weave and stronger the fiberglass. For surfboards you mostly will use two types 4oz, or 6oz in varying combinations. Longer boards will use               more fiberglass. Longer the board, the more fiberglass you would use.

                          E-Glass: most common and cheapest. Found virtually at every boatbuilding store in existence.

                          S-Glass: 20% or so stronger and lighter then E-glass. More expensive and harder to find. Usually has to be ordered.

                          Volan: Used on retro boards mostly. Has a greenish hue built right in that’s similar to a clear green glass beer bottle. Think Heineken. Mmmm Heineken surfboard

 

 

Tools:

This section is just like anything. You can go out there and go nuts and spend 10k on tools and shop stuff. Or you could use household tools to make a board. The only tools you may not have are a powerplaner and power sander. You don’t need these tools to make a board, but sure are helpful and will make the process a whole lot easier. The general tools you will need

Sandpaper – 80, 100,120,180,220 grits.                                   Razorblades

Sanding blocks about 6in long                                                     Masking tape

Stanley Surform

Soft pad                                                                                               Patience. Lots of patience.

Hand Saw

Small Handplane

Router for fin installation

Power-Planer (optional)

Power Sander NOT random orbital. (optional)

Pencil

Stencils

A way to clean up the storm of foam dust that will invade you’r shaping area like the plague

Squeegee

 

 

Shaping & Glassing:

When you go to start shaping, take it slow. Its not a race. Have a game plan. GO in there with an idea and watch as your idea slowly comes too life. If you are using a power planer, take it nice and easy. Use nice long fluid smooth motions.

http://www.surfersteve.com/shaping.htm

This is a great website with a long detailed description of shaping your first board. Keep in mind this isn’t the “right” way to do this. Shaping is an art. Whatever works best for you and makes your vision a reality, do it, love it, and hopefully you had a blast during the process!

 

 

--------------------Extremely helpful videos!!-------------------------------------------------------------

 What is a Cutlap? How do I do one? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKmYs9KfkM

How do I do color work? Where do I start? HUGE THANKS TO FIBERGLASS HAWAII FOR THIS KILLER VIDEO! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73JZE1B730

Shaping by Miller Surfboards - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQqIKn28Kus

Detailed series on Shaping by Paul Carter – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHkQs_tW2P8

How to install FCS2 fin systems - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMcfSlqrHYo

How to install Futures fin systems - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jaegpRVDhY

Surfboard post hot coat sanding - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUC-cJfQr5o

More sanding - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atpR_-Cg-48

Entire VERY DETAILED series on how to glass a surfboard.  – http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLka7Y3zq4NiLe2qRNFSdfq26BIdctQmfh

More surfboard glassing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CTtsPEE3a8

 

 

----------Surfboard building supply webpages------------

http://www.fiberglasshawaii.com/

http://surfsource.net/

http://www.foamez.com/

http://www.fiberglassflorida.com/

http://www.greenlightsurfsupply.com/

 

I hope this helped you! If somebody has something to add please edit this post! Let’s keep sways and hand shaping alive.

Angus-

5

Excellent ,thats the spirit , job done .

6

 

Probably the two best videos out there.  John Carper’s Shaping and Glassing 101 videos.

 

 

7

Two options:

Go with a thicker higher density foam then yellow if you use pu foam. I don’t like how weak it feels, but it is - super light .

Option #2

Get a blank that is close to your intended design, but go a bit longer. For example, I’m shaping myself a 5’11" - but I used a six two blank. Really second geuss a blank bcuz they all look good, but the numbers can be totally taking you south if you take the wrong one.

8

i cant believe i missed the john carper videos! totally rad youtube find

 

lets keep this thread alive

9

Set your glassing racks high enough so you don’t have to squat down.  I set mine so the board is approximately 50 - 54  inches from the ground.

You’ll do better laps and see potential issues when the board is higher.

10

This glassing job is a bit advanced for a beginner, but it has some good info in the pics that I thought made it worth posting in this thread.