I’m looking for advice on glassing schedule for 2.5 lb. EPS. Most of the resources I’ve found are talking about glassing the lighter weights. Some resources give guidelines for adjusting for denser foam but nothing specific.
I’m doing a 7-6 big guy shortboard and need some guidance.
Anybody out there glassing 2.5 lb EPS?
What glassing schedule are you using?
I suppose info on 2 lb. would be useful too.
I know selecting glass depends on what I want in terms of weight and durability. I’d like to hear from guys who are making boards with 2.5 lb. foam and how it’s effecting their board weight and durability.
I’m not sure if you’re going the full comsando route. Using 2.5 lb foam, for one board I did 4oz x 1/16 balsa x 4oz x 4oz on both top and bottom. This nine footer came in at 14 lbs, SUPER strong, too stiff though. My second nine footer is 4oz x 1/16 balsa x 4oz top and bottom with some extra on the rails. This one weighs 12.5 lbs, very lively, pretty much seems to rip it up. Unknown durablility, but yesterdays encounter with a surf-tech left a small (2" x 1/8") dent on the deck. Heh-heh, the fade is such a beautiful move when done corrctly…
I think the 2.5 lb foam is tough stuff, regular lam schedule should work fine.
Your post brings up another question. I understand the idea of getting the coats on within the chemical bonding time window. What I don’t understand is how to accomplish that. I suppose the same thing applies to lams as well as hot coat. How do you flip inside the chem bond window and not screw the whole thing?
Let’s say for example I’ve got 40 minutes of open time. Okay, lots of time to get the lam down. Then I’ve got to wait to flip and cut the lap. Then the deck fill patch, then the deck lam. The two deck steps are easy because I’m not juggling flip time against chem bond time. I guess I’m just not on clear on that balance.
When I think about doing multiple lams, it’s a little overwhelming.
I’d love to buy lunch for a glasser that does epoxy so I can watch him glass a few epoxies. I’m sure he’d have a good rhythm.
You can heat your shop and neglect other life beyond the capacity of most home builders;
Or you can sacrifice the bottom’s optimum bonding in favor of focusing on the deck (like I do).
I lam the bottom and wait. 6 or 8 hours later (whenever I wake up after lamming the bottom before going to bed the night before) I flip, & lam the top. And then go to work. Or go have a surf. Or take a nap. Or watch a game…you get the idea.
Somewhere between 3 and 8 hours later, I come back and heat up a batch nice & warm. Hotcoat the deck with that, without flipping back to the bottom. No tape or anything, just paint it on. Get it warm enough & you can go thin and it won’t slump & drip around the rails. The rocker helps it not drip off the ends.
And go to bed again. Or stay up really late.
Next morning, flip. Surform laps & drips. Tape off. Hotcoat bottom.
And I try to wait at least 4 or 5 days before sanding. Really helps it harden up all the way. Best epoxy board I ever sanded, I went to Hawaii after the hotcoats and came back & sanded it 12 days later. Took a little more pressure, but didn’t melt or gum up at all.
Perfect world: you’re laminating in 80F. You do the bottom, wait 3 hours, flip (use wax paper on the stands). Lam the deck, wait 3 hours, and fill coat. And then go to bed (while the shop stays at 80). Wake up, flip, surform, tape, and hotcoat the bottom. You’re done - all in within 24 hours.
You’ve just officially written one of the most concise descriptions of the epoxy glassing sequence that I’ve read so far. Now, I’m moving to Arizona so my shop is always warm. Okay, maybe I’ll just wait 'till summer. No, I’ll just deal with it. At least now I’ve got a clearer idea of what I’m dealing with. Thank you.
How do you warm the fillcoat, and what is warm?
I suppose if I were to double layer the bottom it would raise the complication significantly. Well that really depends on if I need a double layer on the bottom. Back to the original intent I suppose.
Anybody out there regularly building epoxies and with what glass?
I’m a little surprised at how much the recommendations sound like classic poly glassing schedules. I’d read so much about guys putting on a lot more glass with the lighter EPS.
Sounds like your doing the occasional board.
I’d still like do hear from some guys who are cranking out boards and what they’re using. Maybe most of them are using the lighter foams.
They should sound like poly schedules - 2.5# EPS is about like the lighter Clarks were. I think the lightest was around 2.3 and the next was around 2.8. I could be wrong, but you’ll find 2.5# EPS to be pretty robust. Rich Harbour uses 3# because it feels like Clark longboard foam…
How do I warm the fillcoat. I don’t really know if I should say.
Some guys microwave for 2 seconds or something, but I don’t have a microwave. Your best bet is to pour it into your bucket and drop your bucket in a pan of hot water for a while.
I have a metal 1-gallon square can, like paint thinner comes in (it never had anything in it, don’t worry about residues - I bought it new). I pour in a little more resin than I’ll need and set the can on top of an electric hot plate I got at Longs for $7.
After a few minutes, I just pick up the can & give it a slosh. When it sounds like water inside instead of viscous resin, its ready. See? Super-scientific. Don’t look down the hole as you slosh it, though, because sometimes it gets thin really fast and that first slosh can splash out of the top a bit. Sound & feel are sometimes more reliable than eyes anyway.
I like the can because it doesn’t spill, its infinitely reusable, it heats fast, pours nice, when I put it away I screw the lid on & the dust stays out, etc. But I’m supposing that some guys will be alarmed that I set it right on the hot plate. Well…just don’t go answer the phone or something without taking it off.
Oh no, heat just the resin. That way if it gets too hot, you can let it sit & cool for a while. When you pour it into your mixing bucket, hold your other hand underneath & it shouldn’t feel hot, just warm. Like putting your hand against your skin, not against a paper coffee cup.
It fills the weave better & better the thinner it gets. More flow. If you pour a bead about 1/4" thick and follow it with a plastic spreader, that 1/4" bead will spread out as wide as the 4" spreader. At least, that’s in 1 layer of 4oz cloth. It takes a little practice, but for 1 layer of 6, pour a 3/8" bead, for 2 layers of 4 oz, a 1/2" bead…you get the idea, I’m sure.
So don’t do it like poly and pour your whole bucket in one thick line down the middle. If you do that, it will float the glass up on top of itself, some will soak into the foam (even 2.5#) and some you’ll have to push so far to get to the rails that it will foam up & come out cloudy.
I start with a pour down the middle, following directly along with the spreader, then go up one side of that 4" wet line & back down the other, then go a circle all the way around the board putting an even drip line right above the rail. Only takes about 12oz of resin + hardener together to wet out one layer on a 10’ board. If you pour all 12oz in the middle, I guarantee you you’ll have to mix another 4 oz or so by the time you’re working on the rails.
heat resin before you put in hardner . . . you could find out who does epoxy glassing in your area and camp out and watch them . . . as long as you stay outta the way and don’t touch nothing . . .
but depends on the place . . . some places are secretive . . . won’t let you in. others are more than happy to . . .
I have done an epoxy glass job start to finish in one day (12 hrs) - in florida - in the summer. lam bottom in the am - surf a couple hours - flip and grind lap and lam the deck - go have some lunch and then hotcoat the deck - surf again - grind bottom lap and hotcoat bottom. Ready to sand the next day.
I warm the resin by putting a small space heater right next to my bottle of resin for about 20 minutes.
I have better results by letting the lam harden overnight - then sand the whole board - then hotcoat. Putting the hotcoat on when the lam is still gummy quickens the process, but it does not adhere as well and the hotcoat comes out soooo smooth if you sand the lam first. That is what i love about epoxy - you can sand the lamination!
This a gratuitous attempt to get my post back to the top.
This thread has brought out some really great info on how to glass with epoxy, but my primary goal was to see what people are using in production to glass 2.5 lb. EPS. I think it’s down to poly schedules but it would be nice to hear from some production guys.
i am having a 2.3 lb marko foam board being glassed as we speak. As per my request it is being glassed with double 6 oz. on the bottom and triple 6 oz on the deck. I had the chance to handle it last week before it was going to be glossed.It is what some would call heavy, but it felt like a poly would with all 6 oz. but i am sure it will be a whole lot stronger than a poly of the same weight. When i get the finished board i will put it on a scale and post the weight. I like my boards both long and short to be on the heavy side.I was riding a 2 lb eps foam board all summer with 4 layers of 6oz.on the deck and 2 layers of 6 oz. on the bottom. it was about the same weight as a poly of the same size. 7’0’’ 15.5 n x 22’’ w x16.5 t ,2.75 thick ,bat tail quad with parobolic stringers. the board had a low fish type rocker and is fast as hell. But back to the point, with that glassing schedule it is med. weight and other than slight denting on the tail the board is in excellant shape,p.s. it was my main board that i rode about 5-6 times a week
Not in my world.