Soft foam, not soft in shape.
Anyhow, I hacked a new shape out of an old board and now my rails are seriously soft from way to much foam being taken off (from an old superblue blank). How much glass to get some kind of durability going? I’ve considered double 10 oz volan, but would rather go with the 7.5 oz x 2. Would that be enough? The foam is really soft.
If the deck and bottom are relatively strong still, I would just glass regularly and then put a couple strips of glass along the rails to strengthen them.
I’ve never done strips along the rails before and don’t think I wanna start on this board.
Will the 7.5 oz x 2 bring enough strength to the rails. They’re super soft. Or do you have to go with even more cloth (10 oz x2). Not too worried about weight for this design, but don’t want any more than I need.
Howzit joel, It’s easy to add glass to the rails. Just tape them off like you were going to paint them and the glass them instead. After the resin gels enough cut along the tape with a razor blade the blend the cut edge with sand paper or a rasp,just like ferring the bottom lay up on the deck.Do this after the bottom and deck are glassed.Aloha,Kokua
Kokua, you would be suprised at how bad I can f things up when I glass a surfboard. And it’s been awhile since I’ve done one.
I really just want to put some heavy volan on this board. Don’t you think 20 oz of cloth will be strong enough to strengthen the soft rails. What about 15 oz? I’m pretty set on volan for this thing. Thanks!
go read kokua’s post again. anything in your head that differs from what he says means you’re approaching this the wrong way. kokua is a master glasser. if roger brucker doesn’t sign up to make “Master Glasser 2” (when the time comes), my vote goes to Mike. his words are not to be questioned…only obeyed.
Pre-lam the blank w/ a few oz.s of lam resin and a bondo blade…set it off on the warm side.Herb
Another option similar to Kokua’s sugggestion is to use fibreglass tape - you can buy it in a variety of cloth weights and roll widths. I usually use it for ding repair on the rails but have considered doing entire board reinforcement with it.Its sold on a roll like masking tape:
http://www.resin-supplies.co.uk/glastape.jpg
Mask off the board so the rail area you intend to glass is still exposed with a slight margin for error on deck and bottom. Paint resin onto the rail up to the masking tape then walk around the board and apply the glass tape right off the roll (its not self adhesive). Cut it so there is an overlap at the join (or do a couple of laps around the board to build it up if required) then go around with your brush/squeegy and wet it all out properly. Peel the masking tape when you are done.
Using this will mean no need for trimming with a knife but you will still need to blend/sand the tape edge (this is very easy).
I have 100mm and 70mm wide rolls, I’d start with the 70, do a couple of laps and then finish with one of 100mm to cover the edges of the 70mm as this will help in the blending process.
happy glassing.
rif.
Thanks, but again, I’m pretty set on some volan cloth for this thing.
Again… the board has been reshaped and had waaay too much taken off the rails. They are very soft.
All I’m asking is if 15 oz (2 x 7.5) is enough or should I go up to double 10 oz to get some kind of real durability.
Really don’t want to try any new techniques here. I’m a hack at glassing and I don’t want to mess around. Additionally, I use solar resin, so cutting laps on that rail technique may be more tough for me. But basically I do this shit every once in a while and I’m trying not going to give myself a headache trying a new system (it took me long enough to get to where I am now on the technique I’ve got).
again, joel, the thing everyone seems to get but you is that heavy volan cloth is not the way to go on this. soft foam is going to suck resin like crazy. herb’s suggestions that you baste the rails with a thin coat of hot-kicked lam resin is a good one…it will minimize the amount of resin sucked up in the rails. also, there’s nothing inherently strong about volan cloth. volan is just a treatment applied to the cloth for better adhesion. nowadays, all cloth has a similar treatment for adhesion…it just doesn’t have that greenish hue of the volan that requires a cutlap. additionally, lighter cloth has a tighter weave and will hold less resin. that means that a double 4-oz will be lighter and stronger than your 7.5-oz volan.
it’s your board…do what you want. but you’ve already been given the best (and proper) method to strengthen up your soft rails and wind up with a board that won’t be a 20-lb dog. you want to freelap 20-oz of volan on there…go ahead…but the board will weigh a ton, look like absolute crap, and probably ride even worse. but please, just do something. don’t hang around echoing “anybody else” with the hope that you’ll get someone telling you to pile up a bunch of volan cloth, when people like Mike and Herb have already set the method down. those guys REALLY know what they’re doing, and no one is going to disagree with them (if for no other reason than the simple fact that they’re right, and most everyone recognizes that). best of luck on wrapping up this board.
~ b.
Soul is on it.Volan is not any stronger per wt.
What Kokua stated will work the best for added strength.
I’m fully sold on pre-lam,
I get a better seal.
It makes glass bonding the easiest.
Stops resin infusion.
Creates a stronger shell.
Requires less resin to lam.
Glass lays down flatter.
I’ve built a few boards now in clear ,pre-lam 5-11 = 4.7 lbs single 4 on bottom double 4 deck w/a 4 half body patch.6-6 = 5.1 lbs with the same set-ups Red-X Fins.
There’s no reason you could do both…and you wouldn’t need the tape.Herb
I have reshaped a few boards.The rails get soft and the boards tend to get too small.
Next time I recycle a board I am going to add some balsa or foam to the rails.
The glass tape on the rails with double overlap is easy pease,no cut lap required.
Just smooth it with a surform or sand paper before the sanding coat.
Try to make it the best you can.Not worth the effort to make a heavy dog-board.
Good luck,
Ian
"Soul"stice-
I think I asked a pretty specific question to which I haven’t really gotten an answer. Not going to lose any sleep over it, but the point was to get some advice on whether double 7.5 would give any real durability to a rail that has been overshaped.
Kokua gave great advise yes, but I’ve envisioned volan on this thing since I started building it and I respectfully asked him if that would work as well. Whatever. You can worship the guy all you want. Yes he is 1000 times the glasser I’ll ever be (and one of the nicest people on this website), but nonetheless I’m not going to follow everything he ever suggests.
You come across as a bit of a jerk. I’ve thought that for a long time. I think you need to take this website and yourself a little less seriously.
I know volan is no stronger than regular cloth.
How the f do you know that the board will be total crap if I do it w- volan?
Basting the rails to stop resin from soaking in was great advice (as was kokua’s). Thanks Herb.
Anyhow, I’ll throw the echo one more time. Will 7.5 oz x 2 provide any real strength to a severly overshaped superblue rail or is it still going to dent too easily?
Joel…keep it simple…7.5 is slightly stronger that 6 or 4…but not that much…if you don’t cut lag with volan it will show and look like crap…yes your rails will dent if all you do is use 7.5 volan…lots of good advise on this post…glassing with 7.5 volan isn’t the answer…but what do I know, I only do this for a living…Tuna
"jo"el-
You come across as a bit of a jerk.
i am a bit of a jerk.
I’ve thought that for a long time.
i’ve been that for a long time.
I think you need to take this website and yourself a little less seriously.
i don’t take much of anything too seriously…least of all myself (or this website). that’s how i can get away with being “a bit of a jerk”. indifference is the key to happiness.
as for the rest, i think Tuna summed it up nicely. thanks, Tuna.
Is that you in your photo?
Lots of good advice in this thread . . . from really great people. Some people can’t see the trees because of the forest.
What this about trees and forests.
Yes alot of great advice from alot of people who know ALOT more than me. I just might be better off if I simply followed their direction, but I pictured this board being made a certain way from the beginning. I did ask a specific question and didn’t get an answer unti Tuna chimed in. No worries though. I learned from everyone. Thanks.
Sorry "Soul"stice, but I’ve been annoyed by your tone for a long time. I ignored your first comment, but the second one got to me.
From now on I’ll do EVERYTHING kokua/ herb say. Good Luck!
…ok ok, cool your jets
2 x 7.5 volan on the deck is not too much compared with 2 x 6 or 3 x 4oz
only heavier and dont prevent too much your rails to deck dents
the problem with the Kokua advice using volan is the greenish tone; so you should cut (trim) VERY perfect the patch
if you re heavy with your back foot, nevermind if you go with 7.5, the rails (to the deck) in the tail will have dents
If your worried about strength, do it in 4,4,4,4 or 6,6,4 rather than 7.5, 7.5. It will way stronger. If you want it super strong, set it on the bias too.
If you did it in 6,4, or 6,6 or 4,4,4 it will be tank tough. I’ve done a few soft foam, after the clark shut down, shitty foam rails. glassed in 6,4 and it is as strong as any other board.
Strength in glassing comes from the overall lamination, not the rails. A crack in the rail is like a crack in the dam. it will be the weak point that will eventually lead to falure. just make sure your rails are tight and bubble free.
You run into a point of deminished return after 6,6. No need to over glass, unless your really set on it.
Resinhead
