Going Green

I’m hoping this site can help me and others “go green” as much as possible.

In particular what I’m thinking about is the wood products I use- balsa and the poplar bender ply. I also use pine and MDF extensively in my art making actvitiy. I already found out that the ply I used was from a plantation in Italy which uses sustainable methods. So far I have not been able to source a FSC (Forest Stewarship Council) certified balsa supplier. One supplier suggested I use plumajillo. Never heard of it before.

Anybody have leads? I’m in the Los Angeles area and, from what I’ve been reading, going green also means limiting travel, so I’m looking for local suppliers. I know balsa is not local but at least I can limit my own travel.

Anyways, I’d love to see this website promote a “green” approach to board building and to life. So bring your wisdom to the table and share.

This is probably the only surfboard construction site that has done just that…and for several years.

Bamboo, hemp, birch ply,paulonia wood, recycled skateboard decks for fins, etc

Here’s the two things that baffle me:

what to replace fiberglass cloth with

and what green substance to replace epoxy or polyester resin with in finishing out wood boards

(Roy?)

also how to mount wood fins without thosevile substances too

Your thread made me think about large diameter bamboo trunks for cutting curved fins out of.

Good thread.

I think the whole thing should be a Swaylock’s contest. perfect site for it

can’t get any greener than this guy…

and now he has his own company and website…

http://www.hawaiibc.com/surf.htm

Even Tom Wegener(sp?) has got the bug for the Alaia and Olo feel

I think Pohaku said he used the sap from the banana stump to seal the wood before using Kukui nut oil and coconut oil to seal the bottom. Banana sap was used again on the deck over the nut oil seal with a little sand sprinkling to provide tackiness for the rider.

Another old method was to rub a fish on the wood boards bottom to provide a slimy slick surface to make them faster.

The Hawk proved you could shape them with flaked rock and fire hardened koa wood tools

Pohaku’s site has a nice explanation of a traditional process to go from tree to ocean.

Hawaiians are very superstitious when they do things naturally.

llilibel03,

“Plumajillo” also known as Schizolobium Paraliybum, false balsa, bacarubu. Is FSC Certified and, according to their website, available through PALS (Plywood and Lumber Sales), a Northern California supplier in San Francisco, San Jose, and a couple of other places. You can contact them at info@pals4wood.com

The world wide web makes me feel so smart, contrary to reality.

I’m curious as to what you find out.

Ride on, Tom

Quote:

llilibel03,

“Plumajillo” also known as Schizolobium Paraliybum, false balsa, bacarubu. Is FSC Certified and, according to their website, available through PALS (Plywood and Lumber Sales), a Northern California supplier in San Francisco, San Jose, and a couple of other places. You can contact them at info@pals4wood.com

The world wide web makes me feel so smart, contrary to reality.

I’m curious as to what you find out.

Ride on, Tom

If this is being touted as a substitute for balsa, I’m a bit skeptical. The density seems to be nearly double (0.28-0.32 sg vs. ~0.16) Anyone who web searches for this would be well advised to use the spelling “Schizolobium parahybum”. Evidently this has several variations, and pals4wood seem to be the only ones using the spelling you gave. “False balsa” also works tolerably well, “bacarubu” and “plumajillo” will pull up pages mostly in Portuguese and Spanish. The best description I found of this tree was at the Agro Forestry Tree Database http://tinyurl.com/fmld4 That site can be browsed in many languages. Beware their indexing, though, I could only find balsa itself listed under Ochroma pyramidale :->

Quote:

I think Pohaku said he used the sap from the banana stump to seal the wood before using Kukui nut oil and coconut oil to seal the bottom. Banana sap was used again on the deck over the nut oil seal with a little sand sprinkling to provide tackiness for the rider.

Another old method was to rub a fish on the wood boards bottom to provide a slimy slick surface to make them faster.

wow, there’s always cool stuff here!

I keep having these thoughts of varnish and stuff–would those work for wooden boards? Is any of that stuff decent environmentally-speaking?

No green resins anyone knows about?

the sap that comes out of some trees and plants are considered natural “resins” some of the original glues were made from this stuff. Just look at amber

classic boat builders method

layer ultrathin wood strips like cedar in place of fiberglass and “set” them with tiny wood pegs cut of flush to the surface bamboo skewers could be used as well.

then slather all the seams and decking with several layers of pinetar and let dry

otherwise layer silk or hemp cloth inplace of fiberglass and use a natural sap resin to seal the cloth onto the foam(is there such a thing as green EPS/XPS/PU foam?)

If the core is solid or hollow wood you might not need s skin(in place of fiberglass) at all…

there’s salad bowl finish

must be okay if it’s designed for something you’re gonna eat out of…

probably got to scrape the finish with ahand scraper ultra smooth first

Interesting topic.

Does anyone know how much petrochemicals the manufacture of a standard poly shortboard uses in comparison to say, filling up your car with petrol (gas)?

I ask this because if you are travelling distances to source 100% green materials or using imports from the other side of the world then you have to consider this pollution into the equation.

How green is an unglassed paulownia board for sale in the uk, if it get here by air frieght from Australia?

Not saying there’s no point in trying to be green or carbon neutral, but this stuff gives me a headache.

We’ve been talking about the environmental costs of manufacturing and disposal. But there’s energy expended everywhere, and environmental costs usually throughout.

What you say about transportation’s impact on a product’s overall environmental cost is true. It is perhaps possible that certain kinds of foam and petrochemicals manufactured very close to my home could possibly be greener overall than exotic wood (or manufactured plywood), hemp (farming energy utilized, processing, manufacturing done to it), and green resins (again, farming costs, energy expended to isolate, purify, package) that had to be transported thousands of miles in trucks, ships, trains, trucks, and my car, etc.

There are economies of scale in farming, manufacturing, processing, transportation of goods, including the environmental costs.

So buying a single exotic high-energy-manufacturing packaged material to be delivered by individual transportation in a special trip is an opposite pole.

With surfboards, you have disposal issues too, and aside from disposability, the disposable nature of traditional Clark foam pu/pe boards is an enviro/landfill issue. How many boards are manufactured globally annually? How many are disposed of, and how?

What we are contemplating/after is a surfboard that is as green as possible, from cradle to grave. Distilled down to the purest: local wood and organic environmentally-neutral resins that break down in less than 50 years. (Yes, you’d have to re-do your noserider in 30-40 years. But if you didn’t, it would at least rot!)

You surf. Think about this: carbon dioxide we are responsible for

is right now being absorbed by the oceans in astronomical amounts, said

CO2 being converted to carbolic acid, which is changing the pH of the

ocean toward acidity, which dissolves calcium-based coral reefs.

And that’s just one thing.

Good thread.

One other thing to consider: What we are looking at developing is the methods of building greener boards. So yea, if you use all of these hemp/exotic woods, etc… from all over the world, it might have a higher environmental cost than a locally made eps/fiberglass/epoxy board. But, once the techniques are figured out, you can begin to produce the needed materials locally.

Speaking of paulownia, has anyone checked out Tom Wegener’s site lately? He has a brief mention of a ‘plankton’ line of hollow boards that are sealed only with linseed oil. I’d love to get some more info on that.

pat

Quote:

So far I have not been able to source a FSC (Forest Stewarship Council) certified balsa supplier

If you read up on how it is grown you’ll see that it doesn’t quite fit the mold of traditional lumber production. Balsa is basically a weed (technically its a “nursery plant”). It reaches maturaty extremely quickly (5 years or so) and is supposed to die of once the undergrowth gets going. Its job is to temporarly fill in the empty spots.

Hi Russ,

Maybe your headache is not from thinking about the diffficulties of going green. Maybe it’s from the carbon dioxide in the air you breathe? Just kidding…kind of.

I know there is no prefectly green board, nor any perfectly green lifestyle. From the moment we breath our first breath and spoil our first diaper we are polluting, right? I’m just trying to minimize my impact, if possible.

I got onto this wagon when someone gave me a book for my birthday titled, “Let My People Go Surfing.” The person who gave it to me probably thought it was about surfing. So did I. It’s actually about how to run an environmentally friendly (friendlier) business. It was written by Yvon Choinard. owner CEO of Patagonia. I recommend his book highly.

What Janklow is talking about- including the environmental costs of transportation- is what Choinard calls “Life Cycle Analysis.”

So Dan B what your saying is- if Balsa is a weed, it’s all basically sustainable? There’s no risk of eliminating balsa forest?

I was just thinking kind of hard about all this stuff, and I remembered that my grandfather does papier mache’ scuptures out his own newspapers. Pulps the stuff with water and sculpts these crazy likenesses of everybody in the family. I started thinking about how to pulp it into something that would be able to be molded on a last, and baked into a hard, somewhat flexible shell…

I started out thinking about pulping it with latex, but then how to harden it up sufficiently, have some flexibility to it, be able to mount fins etc…I don’t know much about lacquer or any of that stuff, but I thought papier mache’ was worth mentioning for anyone else to brainstorm on

Then I started thinking about cypress planks–I could take 4 8 foot 2" x 12"s, hollow them out, glue them up…etc

Throwing thse things out there…