Help! Okay, what’s the deal. I’ve done four boards so far this summer and I’m having a problem with my hot coats. On one board the bottom cured all tacky and gummy and nearly impossible to sand and on my last board, both the deck and bottom are all gummy! The other boards came out fine and sandable. What am I doing wrong? It’s not the resin; I know I’m using waxed,sanding resin (not lam resin by mistake). Could it be the ambient temperature perhaps? It’s been ungodly hot here on occasion and as I glass my boards in my shed, it’s hard to control the temperature. Also, is there anything I can do to salvage this latest board. On the other one I put a gloss coat of resin over the gummed bottom after alot of futile sanding and it came out okay. Do I have to do that with this board too? Help please?
Help! Okay, what’s the deal. I’ve done four boards so far this summer and > I’m having a problem with my hot coats. On one board the bottom cured all > tacky and gummy and nearly impossible to sand and on my last board, both > the deck and bottom are all gummy! The other boards came out fine and > sandable. What am I doing wrong? It’s not the resin; I know I’m using > waxed,sanding resin (not lam resin by mistake). Could it be the ambient > temperature perhaps? It’s been ungodly hot here on occasion and as I glass > my boards in my shed, it’s hard to control the temperature. Also, is there > anything I can do to salvage this latest board. On the other one I put a > gloss coat of resin over the gummed bottom after alot of futile sanding > and it came out okay. Do I have to do that with this board too? Help > please? “Oh the humanity!” I shaped a travel board for a buddy last fall. He insisted on painting and glassing it himself. After much tribulation, the board was ridable – but was nick named “The Leper” due to the hosed up glass job. Among other things the hot coat turned out gummy on the deck. We went back and tried to ID the problem. We did experiments with different substances that can fowl the cure rate in resin: dried paint, oil, soap, water, tape gum, etc. Among those tested, the number one fowling agent was water. My guess is that it disperses the MEKP and essential takes it out of the curing process. If I had to wager a guess, you had a contaminant in the MEKP - possibley moisture - - (maybe in your mixing bucket) and/or you used too littleMEKP to get it to go off. To remedy the problem, I would not try to sand off the “muck” as it will probably make the situation worse. I would put the board up for about 4 weeks and see if it improves to where you can sand it. If it is still gummy, apply a new hotcoat. I would not think that heat was a problem as I freqently hotcoat boards here in Florida with tempatures in the mid 90s. One last thing, I have heard that wax can seprate from the resin solution overtime. I shake mine up before I use it. Not sure if its true but, better safe than sorry. Shine
Yep, been there and done that too. Shine covered it. I’ve had MEK go bad due to sunlight breakdown in the bottle. Use dark glass, keep it in a cabinet if you have sunlight source in your shop. I found it will also breakdown and loose its punch over 6 mos. or so. I also don’t store it with the squeeze measure top in place, use a tight fitting cap and squeeze the air out of the bottle if you can. Another possible problem that wasn’t mentioned is that you set the hotcoat off too fast, have to allow 5-10 min. for the wax to rise to the surface. Try a new batch of MEK as a test and/or consider the gel time you experienced on the flawed batch. Re-hotcoat is a lot less frustrating than sanding gummy resin. **the only other thing that is more frustrating is having the lam resin go off before you even have time to lap the rails…been there too. :O{ TS
Yep, been there and done that too. Shine covered it. I’ve had MEK go bad > due to sunlight breakdown in the bottle. Use dark glass, keep it in a > cabinet if you have sunlight source in your shop. I found it will also > breakdown and loose its punch over 6 mos. or so. I also don’t store it > with the squeeze measure top in place, use a tight fitting cap and squeeze > the air out of the bottle if you can. Another possible problem that wasn’t > mentioned is that you set the hotcoat off too fast, have to allow 5-10 > min. for the wax to rise to the surface. Try a new batch of MEK as a test > and/or consider the gel time you experienced on the flawed batch. > Re-hotcoat is a lot less frustrating than sanding gummy resin.>>> **the only other thing that is more frustrating is having the lam resin go > off before you even have time to lap the rails…been there too. :O{>>> TS Or having your gloss coat separate into canals along the length of your sanded hotcoat you just spent hours sanding…thank god for beer.
Help! Okay, what’s the deal. I’ve done four boards so far this summer and > I’m having a problem with my hot coats. On one board the bottom cured all > tacky and gummy and nearly impossible to sand and on my last board, both > the deck and bottom are all gummy! The other boards came out fine and > sandable. What am I doing wrong? It’s not the resin; I know I’m using > waxed,sanding resin (not lam resin by mistake). Could it be the ambient > temperature perhaps? It’s been ungodly hot here on occasion and as I glass > my boards in my shed, it’s hard to control the temperature. Also, is there > anything I can do to salvage this latest board. On the other one I put a > gloss coat of resin over the gummed bottom after alot of futile sanding > and it came out okay. Do I have to do that with this board too? Help > please? I had it happen a few weeks ago on the gloss coat. I am with shine on this one about moisture. Just as I finished brushing the board (I was glassing in the driveway) the humidity must of hit 98% and a it started a light mist. I got the board in ASAP, but it got wet. The resin didn’t kick for hours. Finally is hardened and I was able to sand it off and go at it again. I would be willing to bet you had high humidty (especially if you are in FL) or moisture in your bucket.
I had it happen a few weeks ago on the gloss coat. I am with shine on this > one about moisture. Just as I finished brushing the board (I was glassing > in the driveway) the humidity must of hit 98% and a it started a light > mist. I got the board in ASAP, but it got wet. The resin didn’t kick for > hours. Finally is hardened and I was able to sand it off and go at it > again. I would be willing to bet you had high humidty (especially if you > are in FL) or moisture in your bucket. Actually it could be a couple of things. First mixing up the resin well before application is important. If you are adding your own surfacing agent mix that well before adding it to the resin. Surfacing agent is a combination of wax and styrene and if you have not mixed it with time you can actually pour off the wax leaving you with styrene by the time you get to the last of it. If that is the case do not despair, just melt some parafin and add it to the surfacing agent or even strait to the resin. As for temperature try to do it when the temp is between 70 and 80 degrees, although you can do it higher but most resins like that temp range and do with when the temperature is stable. Usually I’ve ran into problems when the temp. is spiking upwards. Like the other guys pointed out, resin and water are not best friends infact they make a hazardous waste. So keep your gear free of h20. The couple of times that I had this kind of problem I ended up re-hot coating and sanding down. Not preferred but it worked. Good luck, Matthew Weaver
or do you mix your own? Surfacing agent is styrene with suspended parafin wax in it.When the resin catalizes(goes off/with heat)the styrene evaporates to the surface of your coat,and causes the wax to rise to the surface,this is what gives you a sandable surface.If the sanding resin is old the wax settles to the bottom of the can as the styrene naturally evaporates.Without the styrene in the mix the wax sits on the bottom of your project and becomes casting resin.Herb
Thanks for the help and advice guys. The funny thing is, the batch of resin I had the problem with was supposedly a brand new gallon of sanding resin I got from the local shaper. (maybe he gave me an old batch…the bastard!) The earlier boards I did which came out great, I mixed the wax additive myself. I’m guessing it was either the H2O factor or the humidity that did me in. It was 90 plus degrees and way humid that day. Normally I would’ve waited for a better day to glass but I’m trying to rush this board because I’m going on vacation next week. Lesson learned: never rush a glass job! Thanks again, it’s nice to know I’ve got company in my screwups.
Slim…in the 80s I was in a hurry to finish a board to go on vacation,and when I did my gloss it was very muggy.I did everything right,glossed it ,left for awhile,came back ,and it still hadn’t gone off! TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY,the tape peeled off the rail leaving glue goo under it…what a nightmare!..in the long run the board came out okay,and it rode well.We all learn by our mistakes,I was luck to have friends in the industry to help.(god bless Tom Goffe for his talents and his compassion)Tom died in Hawaii surfing Tunnels,he had moved there to work for the Hamiltons and Brewer(he will always live here in my house)my info. is a “stand on the shoulders” from guys like TomGoffe,Tom Norell,Les Pronier,Rich Parr,Jay Novack,the Waldens,Bill Stembridge,Bob Smith,Terry Martin,Steve Brom,Kurt AUZ Augsberger,Mike Short,Randy Lewis,Steve Brom,Rich Harbour,Tim Stamps,Clutch,Gerson,Jay Hoffman,Bob Spitzer,Alf,and the list goes on forever!!! I wish when I was 15 I had the access to a infomation site like this,but then again, that’s what evolution is all about.Herb.
YO,Slim!..I’d bet anything that the culprit was the humidity. Of course, varying temps and possible contamination factor in, but in a place like florida -whose humidity kicks ass upon any Kona weather we had in Hawaii - it’s a good bet that’s what did “the leper” in. Be merciful and send it to molokai! Aloha,T>
Slim…forgot to mention…you said that you set up glassing shop in your shed…sheds can trap heat and humidity. maybe you could try sticking in a dehumidifier for a few sessions to rule out anything else! Stay well…T.
Slim…forgot to mention…you said that you set up glassing shop in your > shed…sheds can trap heat and humidity. maybe you could try sticking in a > dehumidifier for a few sessions to rule out anything else! Stay well…T. Again, thanks everyone. If we all didn’t have these disasters on occasion what would we have to talk and laugh about,eh? I’ve actually turned out some nice little (and I do mean little; the shed is only 6 x 10; an eight footer is as big as can be accomodated!)boards out of that old shed. But there’s been the odd setback now and then as well. I just wish I’d found this site sooner so I wouldn’t have to learn so many of my lessons the hard way!
OK here’s the deal. The hotcoat is more sensitive to temperature. If you don’t have the surfacing agent at 70 degrees plus, it will gum up on you no matter how much MEKP you put in. You just didn’t notice it on the laminating because you don’t sand it. If you notice that your hotcoat isn’t crystal clear, a little cloudy perhaps, it will gum up on you. I suggest a heater, or at least warm up the resin before you kick it.