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''...with more blade in the cut you have less wandering of the cutting edge...''
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Exactly right!
I don't know why I haven't thought of this before, but why not use the masonite template with a router and rub collar or bearing and simply ride on the trued template? Even though it is a spin temp. you just have to re set, easy enough.
There are plenty of guys doing exactly that. I even had Brian at Greenlight make me some masonite templates on a CNC router for this purpose. You can buy inexpensive rub collars at Harbour Freight. I trimmed down the neck of the collar to be just rich of the thickness of the masonite. Slow down the router speed and go slow. Saves tons of time and gives you a perfect 90 degree. On thicker blanks I just go back with a small handsaw to complete the cut that the bit can't reach.
Here is a picture of my router for cutting templates and the full templates I cut on our CNC table. We get the scrap sheets of 1/4" material on pallets at work and I save them for this.
I have a box with around 50 paper templates of boards I have collected over time. I used these to draw templates and cut by hand. Now I have 50 templates or more in the computer. I like to lay templates over each other on screen and compare small details in width or subtle curve changes - usually after a surf while I am analizing…
I have collected some basic rocker templates for some of my favorite boards and also route a template for these to use as a reference while shaping. Every chance I get, I lay these rocker templates on other boards and make notes on how other shapers measure rocker into similar shapes.
The precision of the 90* routed edge with the computer cut template is a beatiful starting point.
If you choose to use a handsaw, I like the approach that NJ, an Thrailkill suggest and confirm, and I like the kerf pounded out and a low angle of attack. Thats a minimalist’s approach. Sabre saws, skil saws, routers all come in handy. Steve Boehne, and Terry Senate use a limb saw with the kerf pounded out. Still waiting for someone here to mention a water jet, or a laser-plasma cutter as the best or most accurate method though, and that’s the secret to their superior skills.
Whatever your comfortable with, and can afford is best, but do not underestimate the skills that only come from practice and diligence.
And for what its worth i enjoy making templates and mixing them to get the right curves, widths, sizes and tail shapes which are not easily accomplished with a router. And no matter how hard you try, you can’t take the cus, out of custom. Furthermore unless the bottom rockers are keyed, the full template will produce a different sized board consistently.
Every time there's a thread like this it turns into a ''different ways to cut outline'' exchange, we never can just stay OT and help the guy use a handsaw (in this case). IMO there's a lot of ways that work, from handsaws to CNC. I'm surprised no one's mentioned the worm-drive circular saw with masonry blade. I usually throw in one of my favorite Greg Loehr quotes, "routers are for people who don't know how to use a jigsaw'', and walk away mumbling....
Take all the above in good humor; the point is it all works, in this part of shaping.
Interestingly, a worm drive Skilsaw was the favored tool of Terry Martin when I was shaping at Hobie. Terry would cut true to the line, producing a clean outline that barely needed to be sanded. If at all. As a ''production'' tool, it's hard to beat.
That’s exactly what I did here. In fact, I learned to do it from Bill. I used three different masonite templates – two of which I traced from Bill’s collection. It’s going to be a combination of his 10’ gun template, the 1961 LB with the Edwards tail, and my little handplane template. It should be interesting to say the least. I’ll put up some pictures soon.
To cut true to the line keep your wrist, elbow,and shoulder in line. American hand saws cut on the push stroke, and that is where your power should be. Ease up on the pull stroke. The saw has teeth it’s whole length, use most of them on the gentler parts of the curve. You may prefer to only a short section of the blade on tighter curves. Go slow but steady and you should do fine. I prefer to cut 1/8" or less on the scrap side of the line and with a slight angle to the scrap side. That way if I veer too close to the line the cut won’t be under cut on the bottom side. I then true the angled cut to the line with a surform. Works for me.
Swied, I put my outline on the bottom and I cut to that outline since a lot of the wobble you’ll get on the deck side gets shaped away anywho.
I use a hand saw with a thin blade…sort of like a big(ger) version of a jab saw.
for me, the bottom approach is good because I’ve already got the rocker in it and I want to preserve the integrity of my outline on that surface.
as the gentleman above mentioned, cut proud of the line and bring it in with a sanding block.
Mr. Thrailkill, I've been using a Skilsaw since I started doing boards on my own and before. On thicker blanks the 7&1/4" blade only cuts 2&1/4" deep. I can't reccommend this for everyone but if you take out the blade guard you can fit an 8&1/4" blade that will get through the three inch blanks. This leaves the blade exposed so beware.
This thread has just changed my method. I'll eliminate the sawing step and use my templates and the router to do all the outlines.
I have tried a few different saws and methods for outline cutting, I use a handsaw again as I find it easier to cut straight lines because of the blade width as nj mentioned , it keeps you straighter. Im using a regular building type handsaw but have found a wide bladed Japanese pull saw also work really good…
Definitely plane the crust and thickness the board down to reduce the rail thickness as much as possible, get your bottom nice and flat before drawing template on then do long smooth strokes just outside your lines , dont fight the saw if it goes off track near the nose or tail because of extra outline curve in these areas just go with it as long as your outside your template lines. good thing is you dont get the little wobbles you can with a jigsaw or other, then I just true up to the line with a surform, slowly making sure to only go just to the line. It really helps to have thicknessed the blank down when surforming the last bit, much less mass to plane against means its easier… just some thoughts.
So, I decided to go with this suggestion. I bought a 9.5" reciprocating saw blade (see below) today.
Here you can see the difference between the key ends of each saw blade.
After about 15 minutes of throwing sparks with my angle grinder I was able to get the new blade to fit into the jigsaw. This was actually a lot harder than I thought it would be. The metal came off quickly with the grinder, so I had to be really careful. I finished it up with a hand file.
An here it is below. I now have a foam eating beast. It worked better than my wildest expectations!
Great to see it Swied, nice new Milwaukee too. Good agressive tooth pattern with the raker teeth. This is a fantastic idea, but I gotta say it's temps and routers from here on for me. No need to "saw". One step process with the router and a machined squared rail to work off of.
I know who said to grind it to fit a couple posts back, but I probably wasn’t the first. Sometimes a “bit” of ingenuity goes a long way…
Was that you G? I can't remember who but regardless, it is a great idea and a problem solver.
I too cut with a handsaw an 1/8" outside the drawn out line for the outline… Learn how to use a saw and you won have a prob.
True up the outline on pu foam with a surform and sanding block. Or eps I have not used I think you could plane or sand? I’m sure someone will cover it. Good luck.so try thee good old hand saw!
Tblank, there are a couple old threads asking about using a router for the outline including one i started...
i've never done it but, there were some horror stories about the router spinning so fast (something like 30k RPM) that the bits would bend and the router would death wobble or the bits would come loose altogether and embed in the walls of the shop... the general consensus was that a speed controller on the router would fix these issues tho... just tone it down to the minimum amount of RPM needed to cut the foam and go with it.
EDIT:
here are some of those threads,
http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/router-bit-cutting-outlines
If i am not mistaken most of the horror stories are of people using regular up cut spiral drill bits (in true Swaylockian Fashion) in a router and not actual router bits with collars.
Greg Loehr will be happy to see that blade mod, aren't the sparks fun? I found out that some hardened steel blades dont take to having their tongues cut up - stick with the soft ones. Nice saw too, that's the new improved version of my 25 year old Milwaukee. Seen here with it's worn-out drive gear (took tens of thousands of cuts to do that). Still going strong with warranty-replaced parts.
