Yeah, that’s what I metioned when he told me that. He said something about MJ is managing the surfboard business end of Hobie and not doing any production shaping.
I think the blanks should have been donated to SHMuseum as historical pieces or auctioned off to raise $ for TM’s family.
I was trying to stay out of this argument (lol at the ''arguing thread too), but the Hobie/TM story is too much...
This is what it's come to?
If you go back to page one of this and look at the comment from the 17 yr old; I have more respect for him than the ''scrubbers'' at some of the big labels that don't know which end of a planer is which.
If that is the case I would be glad to go finish them since I already shaped for Hobie when Brawner was running the show. I did boards for John Bradbury when he first got ill, and finished stuff for Chris Hawk, and Midget Smith when they got too Ill. Really sad when you know your talking with someone you love, and you know they’ll be dead soon. I remember the fundraisers for both of them; they were amazing events, and they looked so happy, if you could have looked into their eyes like I did- I know they never wanted those nights to ever end.
I heard yesterday Donald Takayama had another stroke; I talked to him two weeks ago on the phone and he was in Hawaii and happy. Last night I was hanging out with Mike Hynson, and he was telling it wasn’t that not long ago he was really ill and in the hospital because of congestive heart failure. This stuff makes me sick because of the level of respect I have for those guys. It because of them, and a few others that we are where we are today. You guys all think the rat thinks he’s all that, but he’s not, and they are.
Perhaps PeteC can influence Mark Johnson to get Terry Senate to finish them since Terry’s the real deal, and since Terry Martin is gone, Terry Senate is the guy who gets all his stuff tuned in out of respect by Pete, and not for money. Terry Senate was at all of the events too, I think he even has pictures of them still somewhere on his website. He was at Tommy Lewis’ memorial too, sometimes I think that guy is a ambulance chaser, but I guess I can be called that too because for some of those, I was the driver.
Here’s the link to Terry Senate’s website: http://surfcamp.com/ I just went there to see if some of those pictures were still up, and they are which is totally classic. He took over 400 pictures of the Russell memorial, so Kokua, and Ambrose go check them out. Yeah the guy who masquerades as the rat is in quite a few of them, even behind the lens for many of them. Cool thing is I still got lots of friends on this side.
The machines are NOT F#*King accurate!! What the hell do people think. If you use a machine designed to mill through billet steel,aluminum or whatever that it is accurate when passing across a blank; you think that when that tool comes into contact with a piece of flexible foam its going to be accurate. Wrong!!
Machine shape three or four boards to spec and try laying a rocker bar across the bottom of each one. 90% chance they will all have different rocker curve. Hand shaping is the way it started and the way it will NEVER end. Stay true to your roots and your mentors. Any guy who tells you to use the tools at hand is probably thinking in dollars and cents.
As a surfboard company if you have grown to the point of forgetting where you came from then shame on you. If the corporate brigade has taken over your life then stop and realize that you have become one of the sheep,regardless of how big a sheep you have become you still have given in.
As a shaper and a surfer my creedo has always been F#*K the establishment. What has happened to us? Surfing used to represent no representation and independence.
Amounts of orders will not dictate to me how I craft my customers sleds. If the backlog builds up it only means that I am in demand (which I am not) and the guys riding my boards are not zombies or robotic miscreants.
"SURFBOARDS ARE NOT RIDDEN BY MACHINES AND SHOULD NOT BE SHAPED BY THEM!"
K. Yinger
That was a few months ago when I heard the story. A few things still puzzle me about it like for- One, a roughed board’s pretty much has the shape (outline, thickness flow, rails banded etc.) already there. The hard works already done. Hell, any groove smoother could finish one. Two, trying to CNC a blank thats already been planed down in thickness flow would be challenge to match the tool paths in the file to whatever foam is still there in the blank. I’ll ask Brian about the story when I see him next week when he makes a delivery.
Gary Larsen at Hobie is more than capable of finishing those roughed out blanks. Why he isn’t is just another one of those things that goes on over there. Terry chose him (from outside of Hobie) to be his successor there over 5 years ago, mainly because he didn’t require any instruction and also his very quiet and respectful personality. On a side note, Terry put him through the same process as Phil did to him; had to see him surf, demonstrate various shaping skils, tested his temper, etc. Recent Hobie custom shapes that Gary has done both look and ride as if Terry did them himself. He ain’t no dummy either and has a degree (via his shaping skills) and is currently going on further. If Hobie wants continuity, they would do well to take care of this guy.
My comments on this whole dying art discussion: Yes, hand-shaping is all but gone as far as a trade goes. Not economically viable, as in that movie “falling down”. But, hand-shaping is growing much larger as a hobby than it ever did as a trade. TM himself thought this was better, since there’s no business motives just the skill itself. Terry had a primitive shaping bay in his garage that was way less than what most guys here have, so he knew about being a true garage shaper. Sure, it could have been setup with professional stuff, but it was that difference which had importance to him. Who else would work all week shaping boards as an employee, and then do it at home evenings and weekends?
| 09 | 23 | 12:25 am | 8.2 | 6.9 | 15.4 | NW | 3.9 | 9.9 | NNW | SWELL | 10.1 | |||||
| 09 | 22 | 11:55 pm | 7.5 | 6.2 | 16.7 | NNW | 3.9 | 9.9 | NNW | SWELL | 9. |
rub out the one that’s been curing
time to get it salty.
cover up the tools
the salt mist
will be everywhere.
In the moment all we have is hands
with opposing thumbs.
every rail is fit to the hand
or it’s not.
The hand shapes
you cant shape a hand.
I just love the feel of a rail
and some body else’s
rail is foreign but alive
none the less.
for the sake of pure argument I say
hand shaping is a living art.
Dying is for the dead
and all the dead
should rest in respectful
peace.Strike up the band
lets hear a song of life.
What a bitchin’ board
these men have wrought
every one.
…ambrose…
Yesterday, I paddled out at Oceanside on a board that I hand shaped, painted and glassed in my garage. I was able to do that because of the members here that are so willing to share the knowlege and keep the art of hand made boards alive. It is so satisfying to ride a board of your own making. The first few waves were a learning curve and the board didn’t surf like I hoped, but I remembered a tip from a member who saw a pic of the board, so I paddled in, took off the rear fins, then moved the larger front fins to the rear position, paddled back out and it was like magic. It is because of this forum and others like it that hand shaping will never die as long as the knowlege and skills are shared and passed on to the next generation.
The last week I rode one of my shapes in Hawaii that was for a Japanese customer, Yasu at Kaion loaned it to me, the first wave I fell flat on my face, a genuine face plant. Boy was I embarassed, but got back on that pony, declaring to bust that bronc. A few waves later, I had figured not to stand with my rear foot ahead of the fin, but right over it, hand shape, different feel. I try to see where I stand on boards while turning, pull out of a wave and keep my foot planted where I did the turn and look where my foot is. What made this board different ? it is 8’11" Pig pin tail , smaller old school fin, not right on the tail, but close, out of a 9’8"Y USB, so the thickness carried further to the tail, with the nose thinned from behind center, it had more volume, float rear. Rolled bottom from nose to tail. On some waves I could feel the fin side slip when high on the wave, but it was a good feeling, rather than getting stuck in the lip, it would get pushed rather than digging a rail, in cutbacks I could feel my foot hanging from rail to rail, so I knew I was on the end of the tail.
This is R&D pure and simple, I want to ride all my shapes, it keeps you in tune to what the board do, they all “ride”, just not all the same, it adds to the library of knowledge, can’t get stale, who, what, where and how…then I dropped it on a rail while rinsing it off at Ft.DeRussy
[quote="$1"]
..........................then I dropped it on a rail while rinsing it off at Ft.DeRussy
[/quote]
The high cost of R&D!!! =)
(good post)
youtube, faceboook, twitter…yeah, f#^k corporations, the establishment and machines, lol
(i wish ambrose would write a sweet irony poem)
Hey man if you are taking my attempt at shameless self promotion as an irony then so be it. But if so you are missing the point. And I suppose this could be misconstrued into using the tools at hand (the internet). The differance is I dont make squat and building surfboards is a labor of love for me(and I am sure for most). If using the internet as a platform to promote ones own personal view then that would be freedom of speech not irony. Peace man I think we are all here trying to do the same thing. I am chasing the dream just as much as the next guy. I just dont believe in using the cad cnc method. If you do more power to you and I hope success is waiting for you to step through its front door.
I was a regular participant at Swaylocks in the mid 2000s, not because I was a shaper or a business man, but just because I enjoyed learning from everyone here why certain shapes worked how they did, and what changes produced what effects.
Anyway, around the time I stopped coming by here, all the talk was how guys like Greg and Bert were taking things to the next level and all traditional foam shapers better sharpen up their landscaping skills so they can support themselves mowing lawns, as FireWire style boards would take over the lineups. Then Clark Foam quit and this was claimed to surely be the end of poly boards.
At that time I doubted, sometimes loudly, that either of those things were actually going to happen, but I kind of dropped out of following the surfboard scene. I had to take a straight job for the first time in my life (i held out till 37…) and this made me more of a picky, travel/weekend surfer, rather than the daily surf-anything guy I had been previously. I didn’t follow the design trends or the magazines, or the internet boards. I was totally out of the loop.
Recently I’ve decided that I need to make surfing a bigger part of my life again. Kids are almost grown, I get more time off work now…so I came back to Swaylocks to see what’s up with surfboards these days, maybe update my quiver a bit.
I’m glad to see that you all aren’t having to mow lawns, and that poly boards are still available, and even the norm for most surfers, and that though machine use has clearly expanded, there remains a strong hands-on, custom element to surfboard shaping. Thanks to all of you who are out there keeping it alive!
Hi Jim -
Thanks for that! I hadn't heard of the baking soda filler trick and now I get what DA means.
Good story about the board for the Japanese customer. AHAHA!
Sorry to hear about the rail drop. In my days on the South Shore of Oahu, I think that I saw more dings and damage done to boards in the showers from Kuhio Beach to the showers by the Hilton than in the water.
as for the baking soda, I figured what the heck, did a small batch, you never know how something is going to react, kill the resin, foam up, etc.
It does not give up Co2, doesn’t melt, stay’s a very small particle that is extremely easy to sand, not like cabosil, which hardens up to granite like structure, as good as micro balloons and can be gotten at midnight at the 7/11, that fit’s all the parameters any one could need.
I took the pig to Otis Schaper’s Chronic factory, he and Carl worked for me in Fla., he said the shop is yours, I grabbed a sander with # 150 on it and started in on the worst places, that shatters fall right out if you treat then gently. With a pot of acetone in one hand and a sanding block with # 50 in the other, it was wipe down, see what was still F-d up and blocksand some more, I was on it seriously for about an hour and a half, maybe more. At this point it was solar hotcoat and get another good look-see at what I missed, blocked those places until there were no more shatters/split rail.
Being a clear volan was a hurdle, but I cut cloth as close to the size of the well sanded areas, used solar, inside I had as much time as needed to get it looking right, in several sections I had to built up to 3 staggered layers, it looked good, out to the sun. Right back inside and hit the high spots with the sander, went back to the block and feathered away, hit a hotcoat again and resanded that for the gloss, Only taped the center of the rail, free brushed the top lines to keep from getting a hard edge from tape. Got as far as top gloss, came back in the morning, shot the bottom, put it out in the sun, killed about 2 hours, then started with a block and #320, feathered from the patch out onto the original gloss, go the other way and you’ll sand through the original. I was out in the blazing Wahiawa sun, so I’d wipe it down every minute to see the progress, there were places I had glossed over shine and carefully blocked those areas in, got it looking the way I wanted, some used # 600 by hand and a few minutes of a slow speed machine work brought it back to 98 % of what it was before I DROPPED it. I did the right thing, fessed up to what I had done and repaired it to as close to new as humanly possible, hmmmmm, wonder if I’ll be able to borrow boards next time ???
I dont believe its dead, just that its very rare, the machine floods the markets with boards, lowers the cost of labour and boards, just have a look at the gold coast to see what damage its done, its on every bloody corner. If its how you make your living then your either damned if you do, or damned if you dont.
If you just love handshaping then find a smaller town on the coast and set up shop and do the lot yourself under the house, keep costs down and produce quality work, go feral, people will know the difference, those who are smart will survive and keep the lifestyle that you wanted when you got into the business in the first instance. But if you use a machine and pump em out then ship em off somewhere else for glassing then thats fine, but dont pretend you handshape.
For myself I love the process, but I aint no shaper, in fact im pretty crap at it, but I love it, I struggle with rails, but its a struggle I love, me and a planner in hand, no machine for me ever and Im lucky I dont need to make a living out of it. But on the other hand I would love to retire into it one day, you never know, I will always chase the dream and have a mate who is willing to advise me along the way
My point exactly!!
c the simple problem from a business perspective is the elitest image that the guru surfer/ shaper attemps to portray. this may appeal to a handful of hot grommets that get free boards. the guy with plenty of cash that wants the mickey resin tint. or the select 6 1 crew in the rotation on the best peaks. but overall who else gives a flying Fck. absolutley no one . this is not the 70 and eighties . those times are over. its the age of ipod . you gota change your image if you want to make a living working by hand. you have to be accesible. personally i thinks its pretty pointless at whether a machine can do it or not. the hard part is the glassing and sanding anyway. all that stuff still has to be done by hand. huies post was to me the most sensible. the machines are not putting handshapers out of business , handshapers are putting themselves out of business.
Paul, I’d tend to disagree, shitty board builders are putting themselves out of business, the few talented hand shapers are busier than ever, it hasn’t been since the 70’s-80’s that I have been this swamped with customs and shop orders.
I have a few programs at KKL and on Bing’s machine, but I can process a hand shape faster than it can get in line with those that can’t. I’m a small biz, quality and performance is what I promote and that is what savvy customers are looking for. I know of plenty of shapers whos draw is quick and cheap, but I’ve seen the slow for them, the 90 day disposible surfboard is for the pro wannabe or won’t pay over 300.00 for a surfboard.
I went to a posted link here, made me want to puke, the lack of tool ability and never once sighting the blank, no engineering the nose or tail rocker, the sander was the main tool to shape the board, no skills, but with the aid of smoke and mirrors, it will be gone before the week is out, that is a dying “art”