Health related....

There are a number of us on Swaylocks dealing with various health issues.  I just caught this online video documentary that appears at first glance to turn conventional wisdom on it’s head regarding cholesterol and heart disease.  Has modern medicine got it wrong on this?  Have we all been manipulated by pharmaceutical companies pumping product for profit?

I for one am interested in what will be presented in Part II of this documentary.  There are also some separate interviews with some of the specialists featured in the video.

Being on a ‘statin’ (cholesterol lowering) drug myself, I’d like to know the facts.  If the information presented in this video is true, I currently have my ‘facts’ all wrong!

This is a recent video and right or wrong,  one that I think deserves some attention.  It would appear that even the American Heart Association is backtracking on this…

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/heartofthematter/

John,

What an OUTSTANDING public service you have provided!       That  video is very powerful, to say the least.      Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I watched the video John.  I attended a top-ten medical school for 2.5 years and left in good standing.  I later went back to graduate school in another field of science and earned my Ph.D.  It would be easy to write a 2000-word critique of this video and the points presented pro and con.  The video attacks early subjective “science” and opinions.  However, I heard a lot of “opinions” from the con side.    I noted that the word cholestrol was used generally and did not always correlate with saturated fats. 

The problem with medical science is that when it comes to disease etiology (cause) medicine must often rely on meta-analyses which correlate observations with complex outcomes. Meta-analyses are not replicated research trials with controlled variables (which is needed for statistical validation).  To do credible research, medicine would have to do replicated studies from birth to death with large population samples, controlling all variables associated with arterial disease, varying either saturated fats **“or” **cholesterol only.

There is a line I have used several times at Sways, correlation does not imply causation.  Malaria outbreaks are highest in the summer months.  Ice cream consumption is highest in the summer months.  Therefore, ice cream causes malaria,  100% correlation.

This video is very generalized from both points of view.  I heard many unsubstantiated opinions from the con side.  First and foremost, heart disease is multifactorial – genetics,  blood pressure, stress, salt, diet, obesity, exercise …

Dr. Goldstein was one of my professors in medical school.  He discovered the mechanism for familial hypercholesterolemia – caused by the lack of or a reduced number of receptors for regulating cholesterol metabolism.  Blood cholesterol levels were exceptionally high.  These people developed severe arterial disease.  Yes, this study became highly generalized by the medical community and the lay press.

Some people can eat lots of cholesterol because they can metabolize it, some cannot.  The body (liver) most certainly synthesizes cholesterol to generate what it needs – sometimes more than it needs.

Yes inflammation (damaged arterial tissue) innitiates plaque formation.  Inflammation is caused by many processes.  High blood pressure is a hydraulic stressor to arterial walls – higher force and turbulent flow.  Salt (sodium) is a factor causing higher blood pressure.   Arteries have musclular walls to cope with and adjust the pulsing pressure.  It is believed that high blood pressure causes them to thicken and harden (more muscle?)…  It is theorized that salt causes fluid retention in the body (thickening arterial walls with fluid and reducing elasticity?).    As the body ages, arteries get harder (a bit like an old garden hose) and thicker, blood pressure and turbulence rise.  If I recall correctly, lipids (fats – arterial walls and blood levels) can trigger the clotting mechanisms.

(I have not even addressed the mechanisms of kidney involvement with blood pressure and electrolyte regulation.)

Hyperlipedemia (high blood fat concentrations) increases blood viscosity.  Higher fluid viscosity creates more resistence to flow (more damage?).  Saturated fats are more viscous at any given temperatures than unsaturated fats.  That is, butter (and other saturated fat) is solid in the refrigerator, vegetable oil (unsaturated fat) remains liquid – why coldwater fish have lots of omega-3 unsaturated fat rather than saturated fat.  Yes unsaturated fats oxidize easily.  Oxidized compounds cause free radical formation.  Free radical formation can cause tissue damage.  Omega-6 and omega-3 fats (lipids/fatty acids) are both unsaturated fats.  Yet, these doctors suggest, (I agree) based on Mediterranean and Asian “meta-analyses,” that omega-3 fats, “unsaturated”, are good for heart/arterial health.

The liver must synthesize cholesterol to form bile salts.  Bile salts are needed to absorb saturated fats.  Increased saturated fat intake causes increased cholesterol production and increased blood cholesterol levels.  High cholesterol or high saturated fat intake?

Several years ago, I was on the road for a professional conference eating classic road foods – I forgot I was due for my first cholesterol test the Monday after I got back.  For two weeks, I ate cheeseburgers, fries, poorboys/hoagies, mufaletta, Mexican, Quiznos Classic Italian sub – high saturated fat intake.  I came home to eat steak and coconut cream pie the weekend before my cholesterol test.  My cholesterol was 220 (total), HDL marginal.  I decided to test my grasp of medical science learned, reading labels and doing my best to keep my saturated fat intake to no more than 100% of the RDA (did not eliminate it).   I also avoided eggs – love them with bacon.  My cholesterol dropped 50 to 170.  I also alternated daily taking 1000 mg of Fish Oil or Flaxseed oil in combination with an anti-oxidant (Vit E, CoQ and green tea).  My HDL climbed to the levels recommended for those with arterial plaque problems (not an issue for me but I do have other heart problems and high blood pressure).  However, I alos do a variety of diligent daily exercise workouts.

Bottom line, moderate intake of saturated fats (no more than 100% RDA), salt and refined carbohydrates.  Get good vitamin and mineral intake.  Eliminate all trans fat.  Exercise regularly.  Get plenty of sleep.  Reduce/eliminate stress (still working on this one, seems retirement may be my only hope).

The potential side effects of many of the cholesterol drugs are disturbing.

What I have written here is just a drop in the bucket towards explaining and deciphering the complexities of heart/arterial disease.

BTW I did not have time to edit this for proper grammar etc …

There has been some interesting press about the paleo diet that I was looking at, but it was high in animal fats, so I was hesitant to pursue it. One thing I’m trying to do is cut back on the carbo, and sugars including fresh fruits. I was drinking a lot of fresh fruit juice from the stuff growing in my yard, but then I found it was way too much sugar. I do believe sugar is a strong component of heart disease, and may have been the huge contributing factor in my life. Sugar, salt, carbo, meat are all things I have been fond of. I have been on statins for 15 years now, and my mother may be going on 30+. I don’t know how much real good it does, I think we just produce more naturally to compensate.

I used to produce a weekly cooking program and had many guests come on the show tell me that margarine is one of the worst things we can eat. Our bodies do not know how to digest transfats, polyunsaturated fats and the stuff in partially hydrogenated oils. It just builds up in our bodies. There’s a 100% cold pressed Coconut oil being sold at Costco that my doctor recommended for several reasons. I used it for a while but got scared because it is high in saturated fat. I think I’m going to use it more again.

Gotta remember that exercise is key to staying healthy. My problems seem to be related to not enough regular and hard exercise, then I go out and push myself in the surf. Just like being a weekend warrior, but insead of hurting my muscles, I hurt my heart. The increased blood flow and the mental stress of paddling through solid overhead waves probably causes plaques to rupture and then my arteries clog. I know I had many small heart attacks for years before I finally went in for bypass surgery. The doctors said my arteries were already growing new paths to get blood to areas affected by blockages.

If I didn’t do anything physically and mentally stressful I’d probably never have the heart attacks. I think the people that die, don’t regularly put themselves into extremely mentally and physically stressful situations, so when they do the heart attack is really bad.

I cant find it now but was reading something about a bacteria that grows when meats are eaten with grains that is the actual indicator of heart problems. so carnavors and vegetarians have no problems. the heart runs of fat not glucose anyway. there are tribes in africa that eat onlyanimal products and have incredible cholestrol levels but never heart problems. such confusing conflicted info. 

 

I think we should eat a simple meal of the one food type for a couple of days then change to another. balanced diet but also gives our body time to adjust and process things properly. 

 

no doubt monsanto knows whats what

also eating kale with anything fatty will stop the cholestrol being absorbed

I lean towards Doctor Hank Williams’ take on the human condition when it comes to the medical wisdom moving target:

"I could buy a Sunday suit and it would leave me broke

If it had two pair of pants I would burn the coat

No matter how I struggle and strive

I’ll never get out of this world alive"

Hi John,

My doctor thinks I should be on statins, too.  I said let me lower it thru diet if I can.  The results he saw were after my trip to Poland.  I ate of pierogi, keilbasa, and beer everyday. The Polish people eat this stuff and are very trim and fit. I don’t know if they have problems with heart disease. I stopped eating chicken and red meat. I eat fish and whatever ‘healthy stuff’ my wife makes for me.  I love fish, but will probably get brain damage from the mercury. I get tested again in a couple of weeks.  We’ll see. My deal with my wife is if I can’t control it with diet,then I go to the statins.  Everything has a consequence.  Taosism, yin, yang, and all that. Hank is correct, none of us get of this alive, but I’d like to keep the fun and games going as long as I can. Mike

     Aloha my friend,I stopped using margarine years ago when I found out that butter was better for your body but use only 1/2 as much. I do a lot of blood tests and my scores for clorestrol  ( excuse spelling ) have been right on. My diet before was Lean Meat Steaks,Chicken breasts no skin,and Fish. Always had a vegie or two and a salad with no dressing at all. Now I am on what ever is in these bags they give me but I am putting on weight like crazy. My brother has ahd the heart problems for ever and smoked a pack a day of Pall Malls but he got cancer but stage 1 and they went in from his side and snipped this small tumor and that was it. I wish mine would have been so easy and you wouldn’t know it if you met him. .Every body should eat like a Sugar Diabetic because it is a very nice healthy eating. Aloha, Kokua

It might be interesting to point out what line of work your wife is in!

I went off the statin drug, modified my diet, and increased my activity levels.  My cholesterol count went right back up - not to extreme levels, but close enough to the ‘treatable’ cut off to restart the statin drug.

In that video, they question the whole cholesterol/heart disease connection… actually, the cholesterol/coronary artery disease connection.  One of the experts claimed that it took a long time to ‘learn’ the wrong stuff, it’ll take a long time to ‘unlearn’ it.

After 40 years in the health care field, much of it in and around cardio-pulmonary departments, I thought I understood the connection pretty well.  It’s what we’ve all been told for a long time.   Now I’m not so sure.

 

Interesting stuff

Hey John/ everyone,

My wife’s a doctor. She didn’t want me to take the statins and thought I should try for the diet, first. I think it’s a statistical game we’re playing.  If you have X numbers you have Y chance of heart attack in Z years.  Genetics play a role, of course. That sort of thing and not neccesarily a cause and effect deal. I think Kokua is correct about eating like a sugar diabetic.  I think we overeat, in general. Mike

It will probably take longer than we have left to live to finally correct the mess, but I believe lifestyle is the big thing. The way people lived 40 or 50 years ago, before TV and all the other things that allow us to sit around all day took over. Jobs that require a lot of physical activity help burn off the calories you eat. A lot of the mess is also related to how big business has taken over the smalll town style of country living. The food indunstry has taken what would normally be good clean product and messed it up with chemicals to churn out more at a faster pace. Eating food grown or raised naturally has been a lot healthier. I think many of the places they find people living longer and healthier eat that kind of food. Those kinds of foods are often found in specialty markets at a premium.

I don’t think there’s a big push to discover the reasons why plaque builds up in arteries. If they could eliminate that, a whole sector of health care would be unemployed. Heart surgeries are done many times everyday in every city. The money the statin producers make would dry up. I think this sharing of information is the best thing about the internet. 

Timely topic!

Two months ago I got the bad news from my Doc that my numbers were bad. I asked about a drug free option. He suggested I follow Dr Esselstyn’s diet. Dr. Esselstyn is from the Cleveland Clinc. Cleveland Clinic is No.1 in the US for heart disease. So anything from there, is like hearing God speak himself and I’m not religious.

8 weeks following his diet. I stopped my blood pressure meds. BP holding low without drugs. 105/65.  

Cholesteral drugs will be stopped after my upcoming blood test in 4 weeks. I expect my numbers to be very low. 

My wife joined my diet in support. She dropped from 125 to 116 lbs and she was already a Vegan. Adding the “no added oils” to the Vegan diet made her weight drop.

Esseslstyn’s book http://www.heartattackproof.com/ and the movie http://www.forksoverknives.com/  (Netflix or AppleTV)

The movie is worth watching. Then if you still care, read his book. 

The life changing diet is Vegan, plus no added oils. The no added oils is the hardest part. The Vegan is easy. 

The movie talks about all the medical studies proving the various points they make. The China Health Study was fasinating. Very cool movie. Educational, and not like listening to a bunch of kooks pimping wild therory, but doctors doing serious health studys.

 

 

Also, if you can find it. There is a cool one hour show done by CNN about Bill Clinton and his heart troubles and solution. They talk about Bill getting the Calcium Score test way back, when they didn’t know how to interprit the results. Had they known then, what they know now, he would have known the heart trouble was coming dispite great cholesteroal results.

I had my doc do the Calcium Score on me. It showed I was in worse shape than my Cholesterol and stress test indicated. I think, the Calcium score saved me from having a heart attack within the next 10 years.

 

Lean meats, vegetables, and nuts.

That’s it.

No grains, dairy, legumes, added sugar, or anything processed.

That’s it.

Drink only water.

That’s it.

Easy peasy.

Two heath studies show meat protien makes cancer grow faster. Doesn’t cause cancer, but if you’ve got cancer, meat protien is like pouring gasoline on a fire. It’s in the movie forks over knives. 

From what i’ve been reading, there seems to be support for nearly every plan under the sun.  As an example, I’ve read “Diet For a New America” by John Robbins which advocates the vegetarian route, and I’ve read “The Paleo Diet” that advocates what ChrisP said.  If a website that sells one of the miracle supplements says “Buy this!” you know I’m a bit leery.

“Drink only water” (?!)  I don’t know what plan to follow or if I’m ready to give up my beer just yet, but the diet and lifestyle could stand some cleaning up.  Research continues.

Will watch the video Dwight recommends and maybe get the book.

I’ve heard of studies that drew “anti-meat” results classifying a slice of pepperoni pizza as “meat”.

To my knowledge, lean, natural meat doesn’t do what you claim above.

I don’t know shit myself. What I liked most about the people in Forks over Knives, is the experts. It’s not like the typical crack pot so called experts. Instead, its top doctors taking medical research very seriously. The China health study was massive. The largest ever done. 

The two studies on protein. One in India, and redone in the US tested animal protien on mice with cancer. Both studies showed immediately cancer tumor growth when fed meat. When fed plant based protien, the cancer growth stopped. The test was done over and over, always showing rapid growth with meat, stopping each time its switched to plants. The US guy was the head of Nutrition at Cornell. A farming school in case you don’t know that part about Cornell. I grew up near Cornell.