.....Help Me Build A Better Fish.....

My traditional fish is based on a Shipman 5’11".

My “Mod Fish” is a blend of the Shipman and a…Lost 5’8".

I’m doing it all with home made EPS blanks and epoxy resin…Inspired not copied …The problem is I don’t ride boards this short. The guys love their fish and want more…I love building fish…

…OK… …

5’11" x 21 1/2" x 2 1/2. Glass on fiberglass fins. Fins about 1 inch forward of but crack. Wide point about 10 inches front of center…The guy wants a Quad but smaller…We make a 5’10" x 20 3/4" x 2 1/2…It’s the same outline…smaller fish tail…She’s already painted…I need quad fin placement???..Don’t want it to ride like a thruster…I want to Know what you ride in this range. Why?

Next we have the even shorter fish…5’10"-5’5"…My blending of outlines leads me to a fish with an egg outline…wide point center…Not sure if this is what the guys want…Looks good but I think the widepoint needs to be forward on a fish…

There’s a board in the classified adds. That fish has the twin fins much further forward from my placements…

Tell me about your fish…tell me why you like your fin placement…did you think about wide point?

Go surfing , have fun

Ray

Ray,

I can come by and give you some advice.

Inperson would be better,than over the net.

Herb

ps. Yes,wide point forward,and fin placement are depending on…

Ray,

I can come by and give you some advice.

Inperson would be better,than over the net.

Ray, i doubt you’ll get a better offer than that mate, take it!!!.

Hi Ray,

If you got Herb coming over you’re in great shape to say the least. I put the wide point 3 inches in front of center on all my fishes. 7-8 inches just doesnt ‘look’ right to my eye. Nothing scientific in my approach. Just looks right and I get pretty consistent results. I probably got the 3 inches in front mark from somebody on Sways way back when. Keels I line the rear edge up with the top of the crack and with the tips. Usually around 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches off the rail. Pulled that info off of Sways, too. Mike

Oh, be glad to mail you some templates, too. Mike

Hi Herb…I’d love to have come by…I’ll send you a PM soon…

I’ve been researching this quad thing…Some say fins close to rail and set at the same angle, tight cluster…

Others say rear fins more towards the center with a wider cluster…

It has been recomended that I do a search for “speed dialer”…I’m learning…I was doing my egg thing when all this fish stuff was the talk of the town…I’m leaning towards the tight cluster fins near the rail…

Rooster…we need an update on the Baby blue fish…:slight_smile:

Anyone out there riding a fish shorter than 5’10"…any coments

Ray

I ride 5’9’‘s and 5’10’'s, and I’ve shaped hundreds of ‘‘short’’ fish, maybe thousands. But I don’t have time to post right now, I have fish to shape today. Maybe get back later? I can quickly say that I like the advice of moving the wide point to just ahead of center, not too far up. 4-fin placement out on the rail is going to ride more ‘‘fishy’’ also - more like twin keels.

Alright, I’m back from work… Need any input from the Florida peanut gallery or has Herb got you covered?

One thing I can tell you for sure, you may need to make a more ‘‘compressed’’ template for the 5’5’'. That’s why your outline is looking ‘‘eggy’’ and it wants to push the widepoint back. Also keep in mind I like thinner fish with thinner, rounded rails. My advice won’t be applicable if you’re doing a thicker board with big boxy rails. Those kind are good for going fast in a straight line. I like to turn.

You let me know when,

I got original temps.from Lis ,Martin,Fry,and Magicman.

Magic’s are the most versatile,…

…Of course there’s mine…hehehehehehe.

Herb

…Stingray, in the first take you re going right I mean, going no more than 5 11

then follow the M D advice to accomodate the templates for less than 5 6

-you have 2 main roads: go retro or go “modern”

if you will craft a contemporary one, better go with 4 fins

2 keel fins are obsolete for a contemporary fish and a pain for backsiding

of course a very good rider can do most stuff with 2 keels but if that same guy rides a 4 finned…

in 4 fins there re 2 ways too

1- 4 fins

or

2- 2 “in 4” (A.K.A speed d or similars)

the concepts are differents so the set up and position on the board

I ride a 5 4 and a 5 2, (but Im not big and I surf in daily basis consistent waves)

I made from 4´8´´

the fish that I do are a bit different than most in the foil and in the rocker config

I didnt do hundreds like MD, but enough in all the range and for very different surfers

the thinner thickness MD s approach is very good too

so the concept before start shaping is the key to success complicated designs or special orders

Gunna throw a bit of a spanner in the works, maybe. Do you think it is easier to get a twin keel right than a quad??.

I mean that with 2 fins, there is one fin on each side, where as with a quad fin setup, you have 2 rail fins, that need to not only BOTH be in the right spot, but also in the right spot in relation to the other set of rail fins, so if nothing else, mathematically, there are a lot more variables to play with, ie two toe angles, two cant angles etc.

Just throwing an idea out there. What do you guys think??

P.S I love my keel fish so i may be bias!

I love Keels and have ridden many. This is the one I love most. It’s not mine, just one I shaped for a buddy, but it’s based off mine. One other thing that really lights up a keel is Bamboo Fins. I can’t say enough about the increase in performance. Hope this helps, at least a little. I live very near you, so would be happy to let you borrow some templates. I’ve got 3 or 4 in the 5’7 - 5’8 range.

5’7 x 21 x 2 1/4" Keels at 7" from tail, 1 3/8 from tapered edge of rail, 1/4" toe. Center 3" above middle. 1/4" Deep single concave.

Hey Ray,

I have a 5’9" 16 x 20.5 x 16 x 2.5 that I made myself as a small wave hog. I’m 150lbs and it floats me foam to spare. Its a quad with fins decently close to rail and pretty tight. If you’d wanna surf sometime in SD sometime and swap boards to try it out then feel free to shoot me a PM. I too am interested in the 5’6 and under fish range.

Thank you to everyone that has replied!!! I sent a PM to Herb. There’s quite a few threads about quad fins so I will do my research and required reading.

Reverb says… "-you have 2 main roads: go retro or go “modern”

I have very strong opions about what is and what is not a fish. We don’t need to go there…Lets talk about what Reverb calls a modern fish.

All the local groms grew up. I’ve been fixing their short boards for years. Now these guys are in their early 20’s. I’m the repair guy. They have no interest in my longboards and eggs…Put a half shaped fish on the rack and I can’t keep their hands off of the thing…More talk about modern fish is what I want…

So here’s a couple more stupid fish questions…

Some fish tails have a straight line from the butt crack to the tip of the tail…some have a very smooth curvy arch from the crack to the tip. ???

Some fish have a very deep tail and others don’t…

I don’t want to look at the plumber’s crack…I smile when I see that little T back crack that I wasn’t supposed to be looking at…

Nice board Brownfish. Why do you like Bamboo fins?..Because they are stiff or because they flex? That stuff is really hard to work with as a stringer material.

Stingray-

The defining charateristic of a mod fish is the pulled in tail allowing it to get on rail and this also helps it be a little less “skatey”, some achieve this through wings. As for the “crack”, I prefer a more subtle crack similar to Griffin’s.

Two reasons, first they are very light. This decreases the tail weight significantly, which is a pretty overlooked variable in surfboard design. They weigh about 1/4th the weight of their fiberglass conterparts. The second, if done correctly, they provide the perfect amount of spring and resistance. They make the board feel more lively.

Anyone??, or are quad fish just way more cool than keel fish?

I started the thread to bounce around some ideas. Some of my questions have been answered. Some of my questions are random thoughts and jokes that do not need to be answered…The 5’10" that I talked about in the first post will get glassed Monday or Tuesday. Herb and I are going to get together sometime in the next two weeks. That’s perfect timing…

The 5’ 5" quad fish is stirring up lot’s of interest…next one will be less eggy and more fishy

http://www.swaylocks.com/resources/detail_page.cgi?ID=2400

Today one of the groms I talked about shows up with a 5’9" x 17 7/8" Sharp Eye short board that needs repair. This guy is a senior in college. He’s going to bring over his trashed 5’2" keel fin fish so I can make him a new one…That fish has glassed on keels with a single FCS plug in front of the fin…I belive things happen for a reason…I scored some Herb superchargers in a trade a few months ago…stay tuned…

StingBro…aka…Stingray…aka…Ray…aka…Raymond…

Ray, Hope this helps Mahalo,Larry

Hi Larry,

The guy with the 5’5" bamboo board is supossed to call you for fins…I think he’s going to flake out…The guy with the 5’10 is also supposed to call you …we have a good chance on that one…

The 5’2"…if we build it…I have a set of your glass on keels ready to get glassed on !!!

Thanks for all your help over the years…

7 1/2 and 12 1/2…looking good

Ray