Thanks to all of you who’ve been answering my questions these past couple of days… it’s been VERY helpful.
For those of you just joining us, I’m in the middle of producing board #1. Shaping went well and the board looks good (to my untrained eye!). I installed the future fin boxes without a glitch too (mostly).
…so I glassed the bottom. All in all I’m pretty happy considering this is the first time I’ve worked with so much cloth and resin! Of course it started setting a bit sooner than I expected so I’ve got some dry spots on my rails and some small areas on the bottom where there’s a little too much resin.
How do I correct that? I remember seeing a thread asking the same dang questions but I can’t seem to come up with the right key words to find it again!!
Also… I, um, forgot to tape the slits in the fin boxes when I glassed the bottom… but I was able to cut away the glass when it was setting so they’re open again. I had to use the knife and a screwdriver to get all of the setting resin out of the box itself and a small drill bit dipped in acetone to clean out the one (lucky!) screw hole that got some resin in it. Anything else I should try once everything is set to make sure they’re clean? Should I sand it prior to the hotcoat? I assume from all the other things I’ve read that I should sand/grind the edges of the lam prior to the hotcoat? And yes, I’ll remember to tape them over before the hot coat!!
This one’s just for show… the others highlight the problems…
…here’s one rail (with a bit of fin box for ya)…
…and the bottom…
Thanks again. Time for dinner and a bit of sleep!!
You can mix more lam resin, wet out the dry spots.
When you sand/sureform to remove thick spots, you might cut into lam cloth, but that’s the price you pay for a mistake. If you dig to foam, add more glass.
Lam resin stays a little tacky, doesn’t need sanding before hot.
Always sureform down the laps that stick up, right at the cut.
If a really good lam job is done, you can hotcoat it and that’s it, done!
Your’s will need a little prep and fix, but nice shape, and shape job, from the pics.
Thanks for the compliments LeeDD. Means a lot coming from you! Glad to hear I didn’t do irreparable harm to myfirst! Appreciate the help - I’ll try to fix it up and do the deck tomorrow evening being nice and careful not to cut too deep.
Yes - I agree, it’s a nice shape and the glassing can be fixed up. If you can see air in any of those folds along the rail just open them up with a surform or a light touch with a disc sander and glass them over as if doing a ding repair using the same glass and laminating resin. Knock down the high spots before doing the other side and after hotcoating and sanding, you’ll be looking good! You might try freelaps when doing the deck overlaps and avoid cutting at all. Do a good job sanding - maybe follow up the grinder with a block by hand (not a bad idea with any board) and that’s gonna be a really nice board.
I just read the comments and they sound real good. I was hoping to add a couple of other options and also wanted to clarify some key points… If you have some sub-surface bubbles that are trapped by raised glass and gelled resin, then
you can get to them by brushing on some hotcoat resin JUST on that section of rail. Use tape to mark this area off and to protect the adjacent areas. When the hotcoat hardens, take a hard sanding block with some 80 grit and sand your rail area down until you get your shape back. Sand enough to expose the bubbles and be careful not to get all the way down to the foam. When you finish this step, pull the tape and detail-sand the area so it is smooth with the rest of the board. Most likely you won’t have to re-glass as the deck lam has two layers of cloth to take up the deficits.
Clarification: you wrote that you wanted to hotcoat this lam; I should mention that this is done after both the bottom and the top are laminated.
On another note you can tape areas where you want to protect exposed foam while you get the glassjob back into proper shape; try to prevent things like dirty handprints, and general dirt from getting on your lamination. Clean these spots; "if you can see them, then go after them’.
Clarification: you asked if you have to sand the lamination before hotcoating it; no. Your are supposed to hotcoat directly to a fresh lam, no sanding. An exception is the case of fixing your glasswork as mentioned. The only normal sanding of the lam is the edge of the glass where it meets the foam. Take your time with this as you can create more work for yourself! Lastly, I was noticing some wet areas in the middle of the bottom, try to get an even texture. One pass pressing
down firmly followed by another pass to re-fill and get the right texture.
Lastly, if you run out of time, then you may find that dividing your batch in two will get you more time. Have both ready and catalyze one; do the bottom and the rail closest to you; DON’T WALK AROUND THE BOARD. Finish that rail then catalyze the second part and go after the rest of the bottom and the other rail. After a while you will get the hang of it. HTH.
if I’d done what you suggested in your last papagraph, it would have saved me at least an hour or two’s extra work later, when glassing the stubbies’ bottom and rails. I’ve stored that in my memory banks for my next creation…thanks !
[ Sometimes what seem like the littlest things make the most difference to how a board turns out ! ]
Thanks John. Thankfully it looks like it’s mostly some dry areas on the rails except for the nose and tail (which are a bit of a mess) and the rail you see in the photo. Looking at it this morning it doesn’t seem quite as daunting as it did last night. Freelaps for the deck was the plan from the get go.
Thanks PlusOne. I remember reading about the basting technique, I may just do that. I was working on it this morning a bit and the lam is not too tacky and seemed to sand well enough so I may forgo the hotcoat step when fixing the bubbles.
I know to hotcoat after the deck is done, I was just trying to get a good idea of what I needed to do to prep the board prior to that step… just thinking ahead (which I didn’t do enough of yesterday when I started the bottom!).
Good tip on taping the exposed deck… it’s sooo sensitive! Had to get a bug out of there this morning!
When fixing the glass, specifically the ‘pooled’ areas (the ones that look shiny or where the weave isn’t visible as in the rest of the bottom) is the ide to basically smooth it down to the same level as the surrounding areas? I’m just trying to make sure that there aren’t any highspots right? What other problems do these ‘pooled’ areas cause? The texture was coming out very nice… then the resin started to kick. There was a few other things I was thinking of kicking shortly after that!
I may try your divide-and-conquer lam approach for the deck. With two layers I can only imagine it’s gonna take a little longer…
Halfway thru using a squeegy on the lam coat, switch to a 3" low nap paint roller. The nap’s gotta be low enough to not pull up the wet glass as you roll. You’ll get a perfect surface everytime and plus it’s really easy to do your rails. Hold a large squeegy under the glass with one hand and use the free hand for the roller.
So you mean hold the glass parallel to the surface being glassed with the squeege and then use the roller to roll resin onto it before I stick it to the underside?
Is the roller plastic only, no foamy/spongy material?
Re: the “pooled” areas… don’t even worry about 'em. It looks in the photos like the glass is stuck to the foam, right? Just apply a smooth hot coat over all that and you won’t be able to tell. The added weight to the finished board will be miniscule - trying to “fix” it will only lead to more problems.
I’d focus on getting all the dry spots saturated and the high spots level before laminating the deck and rails. If you can do that and get a clean hot coat and sanding job, you should be stoked!
The idea with the repairing of a gelled rail with bubbles is to get it down to the level of the surrounding glass. If voids are exposed they usually can be ignored and covered by the second lam. If they seem too big or are in an orientation that will compromise the boards structural integrity (like a pre-buckle) then by all means put glass over the area then blend it in; It’s your call. Yours didn’t look too disasterous, just do the second lam after sanding/repairing.
Pooled areas (shinies, drips) will alter the intended shape and if the pool is pure resin (no cloth in the build up or fibers of some sort) then the area is a potential weak spot. If you have time you can give your lamination a “once over” with the sandpaper.
Caveat: sandpaper will stain your lamination; the adhesives in the glue will sometimes mix with open lam resin. This goes away somewhat with a pre-hotcoat. The pros use a bleached-white sandpaper called Mirka. You’ll find it very often in high-end cabinet shops. 80 grit should do you right (Mirka P80). I think some of the mail order surf supply places have it as well. This stuff is excellent/essential for blending the first lap into the foam of the board.
The texture of the glass is super important. Too much resin and brittleness occurs. Too little amd the micro-voids can initiate failures. Some glassers will mix a “cherry coat” of hot lam resin to go over the just-finished lamination in order to get the right texture. Texture is also important for good color work (pigments such as tints and opaques) but that should only be done after you are comfortable with clear and teach yourself some good glassing skills.
Don’t kick yourself! Everything that happens to you is learning; figure out how to make the changes and keep going. Pro glassers will cut cloth in less than minute and lam in less than 8! They come back to a perfect lam with perfect texture and they only have to scuff the lap line before glassing the other side. All these people had to figure out what worked for them to get to that level. That is were you are now; have fun!!!
Yea the glass is definitely stuck to the foam on the bottom. The little pooled areas are from where I was doing some final passes on the glass. The glass itself is on good. Aside from those minor areas it’s got a very nice even texture.
Thanks for all your support. I’m definitely stoked about the board and I’m looking forward to lamming the deck. Just after doing the bottom I learned soo much!
PlusOne,
Thanks for the detailed explanation - I tend to like knowing the why behind things so I appreciate it imensely. Thanks for the tip on the sandpaper staining the lam… I noticed that a bit this morning when I started working on some of those spots… will this also happen when I sand the hotcoat?
So you mean hold the glass parallel to the surface being glassed with the squeege and then use the roller to roll resin onto it before I stick it to the underside?
Is the roller plastic only, no foamy/spongy material?
Thanks,
Santiago
Yes, TRY to hold the glass parallel but because it already, to some degree, has resin on it, you have to try the best you can. I never get it quite parallel. After resin saturation you can use the roller on the glass to stick on the underside. The roller consists of metal frame and a low nap roller cover that slides on it. Your local surfboard building supply or paint store has them. Be sure to wear gloves! If using UV resin you can put the saturated roller in a can in the dark somewhere and then use it for the other side. If using catalyst, then you’re gonna need two rollers with covers. Toss the first then use the fresh second one. I get mine for something like $2.99.
You know you might think about getting the 101 glassing video. There’s nothing like seeing it done with your own eyes. Oh, that video doesn’t use the roller method, but has tons of glassing info on it.
Yea I was gonna buy the video just haven’t gotten around to it. I’ve seen some of the online ones from harbour sufboards (I think) and that shows the lamming… though obviously not quite in the same detail! I’m feeling pretty good about the whole thing right now, actually - I’ve made some mistakes but nothing that can’t be corrected (apparently) and I’m learning tons! #2 is gonna go much easier I think.
Ok! The deck was sooo much easier than the bottom. It’s amazing how much difference it makes when you actually have time to work before the resin sets! Even though it was only 60-65 deg in the garage I mixed in 3/4% MEKP to give myself some time and it definitely paid off. Thanks PlusOne for the two-batch tip, it helped keep my mind focused, though the first batch didn’t end up setting off until I was done with the second side as well. Better more time than not enough!
I cleaned up the laps (which were cut any which way but straight!) and pushed them as best I could into the foam to keep it even. Even so it’s noticeable where the lap ends under the deck - will the hot coat cover this? The nose will need a little attention as will the tail, but it’s not too bad.
The only thing I’m bummed about is that I never did go back and fill in the small gashes that the hand plane made in the foam when I cleaned the stringer. I now realize that this will compromise the integrity of the board and sooner or later it’ll likely start de-lamming there… but oh well, #1 is bound to be a learning experience!!
Still I’m super stoked at how it’s all turning out. Hotcoat tomorrow hopefully and sanding after that. If it ever stops raining here in SD I may even get to surf it this weekend! Which reminds me… how long do I need to let it cure before I can ride it after the hotcoat is sanded?
Thanks again all of you. Here’s some pics of the progress so far:
PS - the dog was in the yard while I was in the garage (door closed) glassing… he’s not allowed in there until I’m done cleaning everything up very, very well.
Great job!!! texture is waaaaay better, thus confidence, thus quality; etc. I read your second paragraph about the edge of the first lap showing and I thought “Uh Oh…”
When the first lam is done and dry the edge of its’ lap must be blended into the foam of the exposed deck; did you do this? Ideally we get NO lump whatsoever, sometimes a trace of one only seen in the reflection of the hotcoat.
Unfortunately, the hotcoat only imitates what’s there so that “lump line” will be there only to be hit by your sanding and thus produce a possible weak area. Can you get a close-up of the offending area using some contrasting side lighting? You have a couple of avenues to fix the area, depends upon how severe the lump and if you can stand a slight increase in weight…
Next thought, (not trying to be on a downer here, just pushing the quality). The first part of your batch kicked off too slow and most likely you will get some pin air as the unkicked portion of the resin matrix soaked down into the blank. This is bad for a few reasons, but for now realize that it is not good. Push yourself to use 1-1/2% and just speed up. Get a big clock on the wall and check from when you shoot the catalyst to when you pull yourself away from the board.
Cure time, (sigh…). As soon as it is solid, go surfing; ha ha… If it is yours and if you’re amped, seriously, there’s nothing stopping you. Most likely the Cure Police will not enforce and only you and your board’s deck will know. If it’s a customer’s board, then you may want to wait a week from the last wet work. A week shows that you made an effort to ensure their board is fully kicked. When I was in college, our test data showed that a resin batch in IDEAL conditions was 95% cured in an hour-and-a-half. UV changes all that.
Is mixing mekp at 3-4% a bit hot . I always thought it was about 2% . In saying that I mix at 2 and then go over it with a hotter mix after wards. some people cal it a shotgun. It gives you time to wet out and finish.
Any obvious air bubbles can be opened up and injected with resin before hotcoating. Check along the lap edge underneath the deck layer - a common place for this to occur. One thing you can do is “paint” a layer of laminating resin over the high laps and let it cure before continuing with the hot coat. It adds a little weight but gives you a thicker layer over the lap so you’re less likely to sand through it. Your board is looking good!
