Help! Removing fin box

I make balsa composite long boards… One of them I noticed was getting heavier so sat it in the sun with the vent closed…

bubbles and water comes out the fin box (Fu 10 1/2" black!). Water and bubbles come out right near the slot in the middle where the fin first goes in, at the bottom of the box. The glass around the box is fine.

I started off trying the router at 1/4" depth… it moves SLOW and it seems the box material is melting not being cut. Oh… just thought… need to sharpen the bit/tool? Or is there another way to remove just the box and leave the rest of the board alone?

DrLes

Thanks for any suggestions in advance!

Tridrles,

Definitely a new and/or sharp bit in the router. Still the only way to go - rout it out.

Try less deep cuts like 1/8" at a time. Takes a while longer - go slow with the router.There will be some degree of melting.

Good luck

PeteHarwood is correct. Use a narrow (1/8" or less) carbide bit and multiple passes.

Thanks Pete! Smaller bites, just like my mom always told me. Ha!

Very little melting now. Just means more passes but it’ll look much better.

Isn’t Sways the GREATEST!

DrLes

Now back to routing…

Hi,

Uhmm, I’ll agree that the new router bit is the way to go, though I might suggest a steel bit rather than carbide. The reason for that is that steel tends to go to a sharper edge than carbide, less friction, so you’re more likely to cut chips rather than melt the plastic. Carbide is harder than steel, but it’s also more brittle, so they make the angles on the tools steeper in carbide than ins teel.

Also, if you can find one, see if you can get an up-cutting bit, slight spiral to the cutter. Instead of a straight bit. That’ll bring the chips up and out, a cleaner cut and less tendancy for 'em to stay down there, melt and refreeze behind you as you cut.

(shown, a pair of Freud spiral solid carbide bits, all-steel very similar. )

Hope that’s of use

doc…

…where else can you get on point specific wisdom like this…another Sway’s Gold Star on the Bonus Baby Chart!

(Chuckling )

Well, you see, there’s a reason I know about this. I guess experience and progress isn’t through things that go right, it’s what ya learn from what goes wrong. And here’s how I know about routing plastic:

See, Haffs had this board, an old Midget Farrelly Stringerless or maybe it was a Hot Curl, a G&S anyhow. Thing is, it had a WaveSet fin.

Note I said ‘had’. Not ‘came with’. What it came with was about three inches of lexan Greenough Stage 4, snapped off. And that most definitely wasn’t enough to make that thing point in anything like the right direction, especially with Haffs on board, 'cos he wasn’t exactly the most highly skilled cat on a hot foam board, as it were.

Well, when Haffs and his ilk had board problems, they came to me. “Doc, can you…?” And I’d look, cuss, ask how in Hell’s hatrack they managed to do something like that and just how they thought I was gonna fix it. And then, well, I’d come up with something. That’s how I got ‘doc’ pinned on me. Or one of the reasons, anyways.

So I see this thing, this amputee Greenough fin. Oh gawd, as even then the fin system was extinct, ‘and how ya gonna do this, swifty’ I asked myself.

So I came up with a plan. Not solid glass, not wood, stay with the plastic. Labor on one of the other methods was gonna be substantial and did I mention that Haffs, being from old money, was about as tight as a duck’s butt in icewater? High Density Polyethylene plastic - HDPE as it’s known to its friends -they make commercial cutting boards out of it, among other things.

“Haffs”, I said, “get a nice, 1” thick industrial cutting board, at least 12" square". I figured he’d look for a bit, lose interest and my problem would be solved. Most restaurant cutting boards run about 1/2" and I had absolutely no idea where you’d get thicker stuff.

No…Such…Luck.

About two weeks later, he shows up with it. Okay, I’m busted, now I have to actually DO it.

Damn.

Cut the outline shape on the bandsaw. No problem.

Those boxes taper faintly, top to bottom, cut that on the tablesaw. No problem, albeit a little spooky, holding that tall chunk of plastic vertical against the fence.

But now to foil the thing. Tried a disc sander, 8" wheel on it.

Rut-roh. See, you have thermoplastics and thermosetting plastics. Thermosetting plastics, like PVC and polyurethane, they go from molten to molded to hardened and they don’t really melt again. They burn, and quite nicely, but they don’t melt.

Thermoplastics melt. And harden…or ‘freeze’. And melt again.

HDPE is a thermoplastic.

So, with the big sander, I just smeared the stuff around a little and gummed up a few discs before I decided that maybe I oughtta try another tool.

Well, what did I have that’d take away stock quickly? Hmmm - router? Sure. A short, straight, wide hinge mortising bit in it, 2 flute type, and off to the races I went.

And lets just say I was pipped at the post. Or broke down in the pace lap.

Fired up the router, had at it, and WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. The bit may not have been the sharpest I had, and it didn’t cut all that wonderful. But melt HDPE? That it did. Whip it up besides? Ohh yeah. And after the bit had whirred on through, the stuff froze again.

HDPE meringue. I had invented a really, really bad open celled foam.

After I chipped off the foamy goodness with a hatchet, I did what I should have done in the first place, broke out files and rasps and surforms and did it by hand. Sanded it lightly at the end, drilled the appropriate holes, finish fitted it and there we were.

Pretty good fin too. Haffs was out surfing one day with a few of his cohorts. One was on a big, heavy, red lifeguard paddleboard. Haffs went a-steamin’ along, straight into the paddleboard. Now, those things were and are heavy. But the fin I made went in something like six inches into the rail. What ya might call your proof of concept testing.

I kinda rested on my laurels after that, at least in making WaveSet fins. Or, more accurately, I ran and hid when anybody brought the subject up. I still have that stump of a Greenough fin around someplace, kept it as a reference on the base shape of the WaveSets. Heaven knows why.

And…heh heh, evil old ________ chuckling again… now my good friend patrick gets stuck with just what I used to get. You’ll maybe recall from his 12’ blank post that he was swamped in ding repairs? He’s good, better than I ever was, which in many ways is its own punishment.

I think I owe him a few good beers, just 'cos I don’t have to do that anymore… or rout plastic, at least for fins.

doc…

Doc…great story…from one old dingmaster to another.

Yup, W.A.V.E. Set system…had a Stage IV in a Becker I bought off the racks, say early 70’s, awesome windswell at Tanks between Ventura and SB when t used to break…big bottom turn on left and TWEEEEEK!!!..instant spin out. Snapped.

Pretty see thru fins, but not as good as your cutting board. Kinda funny thinking of that material for a Greenough flex fin, but those were the days where you had Greenough, Cundith, Liddle on one hand and some Borm, Tiki, Shark, Duke Kahanamoku popouts on the other end of the spectrum. I rode a friend’s Ten Toes at Campus Cove and it worked great up front…even with the warped nose.

I’m glad your cutting board experience didn’t end up your only claim to fame (LOL)…

Yup, W.A.V.E. Set, you really shouldn’t trust anything with a contrived acronym.

And of course there was the insert setup, the variable W.A.V.E. Set. I saw one cast out of aluminum, that worked fine, and there may have been a few with the nylon + fiberglass strands that worked for a while…but making 'em out of colored Lexan, when the things were held in and held on by flanges of thin ( 1/8" or less) Lexan, well…one good turn may deserve another, but one good turn with one of those meant you’d be anticipating the sideslip thing that came a year or three later.

Heh- we had a batch of Weber Skis that came with them, in some sort of horrible translucent chartreuse shade. Wound up buying a couple hundred more fins…except you could only get them as the whole set, fin, insert box and screws. So you’d take the fin out of the set, put it in the insert, paddle out, turn, snappo, go in and back to the shop for another one.

The place closed this year, maybe thirty five years past that particular horror show, and somewhere we still had a couple cardboard boxes full of those damned inserts. At one time I thought I might be able to mill the slot bigger and retrofit a Fins Unlimited fin in there somehow … but eventually I decided to bag it as more work than it was worth.

Popouts… I smile when I think about popouts and popout stories. Heeeee - some, somehow or other, went pretty good. But most were about as steerable as a Scud missle, pick the time zone ya wanna hit and hope for the best. One guy I know, he takes his old Dextra out still, early in the day. And he puts the fear of Pete into anybody near. Then he can take his Becker out and get every wave he wants… 'cos on the beach, the Dextra is waiting…

Heh…I have more than one claim to fame. But I dunno about statutes of limitations on some of the others…

doc…

Hey, thanks for jogging my memory…I realized reading our reply that what I had WAS the variable double tab setup…hence why it snapped on a good solid bottom turn but nohing Barry Kanaiapuni would have thought twice about.

I had been heading north from a San Diego trip and stopped by the Rick shop in Hermosa. It was a 7’3" RP team board that had been barely used and the price was $95. This was 1970 or 71…I was shaping but still riding and sampling other boards…this one was one of those you just looked at and said “this is me”…so I laid down the coin and headed north figuring I’d make the wind swell at Stanley’s…but Tanks was going off sooo good with the left firing, and not really any crowd made it that more all attractive so there I was…at least I got some decent waves for half an hour before really feeling the board…it wasn’t until I snagged an outside wave about a foot overhead that I had er, “technical difficulties”…no extra fin either.

Tanks was a great spot that never seems to break anymore. It stands out in my memory banks for that broken fin and yet another time when I was cutting back with my hand leading me around only to see my watch band pin break and the watch flip off my wrist.

Ah, the good ol’ days.