Here I go... (finally!)

General Discussion
1

After discussions on other posts, and some pm sessions with Chip, I’ve decided to take everyone’s advice and make my first shape a fish. I was thinking about doing a single fin, but the one I have is pretty tricked out and I’m thinking my chances of making a fish that surfs great are better than with a single fin…

So today I spent a couple hours with graph paper… I practiced by measuring up my current fish and drawing out a to-scale outline by hand. It took a while to start getting a feel for smooth curves. I’m really glad I didn’t whip out APS for this part. It was also helpful to draw out the outline because looking at the board can be deceptive. Laps and pinlines definitely made the board’s shape look significantly different than it does on paper.

Now that I had this outline, I worked on the changes I wanted out of it… I wanted the board to be a touch thinner, and a touch narrower. I drew it out and played with the curves a bit, frankly, just to suit my eye. I ended up with an outline that’s a tad more parallel toward the tail, but with a very similar front-end to my board.

My current fish’s dimensions are: 5’6"x16.75"x21.25"x16.75"x2.5" with swallows 13" point to point and a 6.5" buttcrack.

The one I’ve drawn up is:

5’6", 21" wide, 2 3/8" thick. 16.25" one foot from the nose, and 16 5/8" 1 foot from the tail, with a swallow 12.5" point-to-point (thinking 6" butt-crack)

As for rocker, I plan to follow the lines in the blank I end up with, but I’m thinking about leaving that similar to what I’ve got now (around 4" at the tip of the nose, and about 2" at the tip of the tail).

The fins on my current fish have a nine inch base, set about an inch fore of the buttcrack, and are toed in a half inch on each side. I was thinking about using parallel keels, just to see what it’s like. I figure I also might get back a bit of the speed I’ll lose from having less volume.

Sheesh. Sorry for the mouthfull. At any rate, since my camera is dead I drew up my template in APS and attached it. I’m interested in any feedback before I get to cutting :slight_smile:

Ignore the rocker and foil in the pdf, I was having trouble with those tiny curves in APS and will draw that out by hand. I took a shot at the rails, but those are works-in-progress as well.

Oh and for reference, I’m 5’7" and 125-130lbs… Also, I’m planning on glassing in Volan. I assume the weight added by Volan on a board this size isn’t significant enough to justify altering foil or dimensions, yes?

Thanks!

-Phill

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While I’m not competent to tell ya what shape will work for you, still there’s one thing I can answer -

Quote:

I’m planning on glassing in Volan. I assume the weight added by Volan on a board this size isn’t significant enough to justify altering foil or dimensions, yes?

Yes- your glassing technique will have a whole helluva lot more effect on final weight than the additional weight of the volan treatment, which is basicly a microscopicly thin layer on the glass fibers themselves. Another way of putting it is that 8 oz. volan treated cloth will weigh the same as 8 oz non-volan cloth, the wee bit better resin absorption by the cloth won’t be significant.

hope that’s of use

doc…

3

Thanks! Good to know, that’s what I figured. Two of my four boards have volan cloth and I love the glass jobs. The two that aren’t I HATE. I suspect the overall glass thickness and foam density have a lot to do with it, but either way… I can’t imagine not using volan.

Oh, and I’m planning on doing the board in poly… Not sure if that was obvious or not.

4

What are you planning to do for rails/bottom contours? I wish you luck, and keep us posted on progress!

JSS

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Bottom contours = flat :slight_smile:

A big part of why I chose a fish is because it seemed a design especially suited for a flat bottom. Less to worry about for my first go.

As for rails… I’ve been picking through the archives all day looking at rails. I think I’m going to stop by some shops this week and take a look at rails and foil in some of the fish they sell.

My current fish has a downrail that’s not very steep, and a pretty soft tuck underneath. Seems forgiving and accomplishable… I’ll likely stick with something close to that. I read a lot in the archives about some of the old fish having more of a 60-40 rail through the back end… is that true?

Any rail suggestions folks?

Also, I talked to Chip some more today and I’m going to take more volume out of my template… around an inch narrower all the way down (so 20" wide, 15" or so near the nose, 11" at the tips)… and bring the thickness to 2.25"

I compared my templates to others today and found mine to be a bit more parallel in the back half than most. Is this a problem? I’ve been thinking about it the same way I’ve been thinking about the parallel keels… maybe I’ll get back some speed I lose from the lack of volume)…

Just don’t know how straight is too straight for a fish. Saw some folks asking the same thing in the archives and found some opinions in both directions. Thoughts anyone?

Shaping stands will be done today. I plan on beginning the blank search this week. I figured I’d go to mitch’s… they have a few brands. I’d planned on getting a walker blank to ‘play it safe’… but it looks like walker’s fish blank is 6’8"?? Will it be a pain to get enough tail rocker if I use that thing?

Thanks in advance… Sorry for cramming all these questions into one post.

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I was just thinking, that once you decide on a rail shape, I can help you out with exact measurements for the rail bands, especially if you have never shaped before. If you have some experience, please disregard.

JSS

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That would be very helpful. I have NO experience. Thanks! I’ll message you when I get the shape figured out.

8

Hi Famous,

Traditional fishes tend to have a more parellel template through the back. Depends on what you want the board to do I guess. What do you want this board to do that your current fish does not do? I like your template. With my fishes, the board with softer, boxier rails tended to be more forgiving in choppier sloppy conditions. The boards with more traditional downturned rails really fly,but they need hollow clean conditions. It all works and it’s all fun. Mike

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I’ve been hoping for a reply from you, Rooster… Your appreciation for the fish is pretty well documented :slight_smile:

Besides a glass job that doesn’t pressure dent when you look at it funny, I’d like less volume in this one. My current fish feels corky. Chip encouraged me to take more volume out of the template, and I did… (attached)…

Now it’s looking 20" wide, 2.25" thick, 10.75" apart at the tail. It got a tiny bit curvier in the back half, but really only in the last foot.

I’m also thinking about losing a bit of nose rocker. I often ride my fish in sectioned up confusing surf… but the faces are usually clean (often flat… but clean)… I think I’ve been pretty happy with the softened downrails on my current board.

Continued to ignore the rails in the template… APS completely confuses me with rails… I think those are getting drawn by hand.

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Quote:

Continued to ignore the rails in the template… APS completely confuses me with rails… I think those are getting drawn by hand.

From what I’ve been able to figure out–you drag the blue points out to where the overall rail profile looks good to you, then fool around with the other bits to tune it further–this is important: the blue points dictate the profile, they’re not changing your width dimension at that point–the rail profile just changes according to the blue points–drag the blue points around some and then check your outline for clarification–works the same on the bottom and top–just the overall contour changes, not the overall outline or overall thickness, so you can set the rails below the stringer point to add concave and your thickness will stay the same-the top stringer point drops to keep the thick the same, or something…

anyway you model it, you’re gonna do the old hand-sanding tour de foam snow, right?

11

Famous,

It all looks good to me. I’m no expert. Just a garage hack that is stoked I can build my own board and continue to surf. I hear all kinds of things about these boards. Don’t surf backside, steep learning curve, only for slow mushy waves. They’re pretty easy to ride. Wide stable platform. Paddle good for a board that short. They just need a fast hollow little wave to light up. They fly on the backhand, too. You just have to adjust to the board. Like any board. I noticed the 'herky, jerky kids that normally ride their modern thrusters tend to smooth their style out if they spend some time on a fish. Mike

12

the one thing I noticed on my little wide flat fish is I need to lower my centre of gravity , and open my stance more . And possibly weight my front fot more than I do riding , say a 6’4 single fin.

Zap had this graphically illustrated for him on his first left [backhand for us] on my fish , after stepping off his 6’8 x 18" thruster [pintail] . His comment was once he came off the bottom , it went “wiggly” on him .

the resulting wipeout was SPECTACULAR .

THANKS for the ebntertainment , ‘sandy’ groper !

[it was AFTER that wave that I showed him what “the pigdog” is . heeheee]

yep , they ride different to THRUSTERS in hollow surf , for sure , with that fat arsed squirrely tail . Take a bit of adapting to , for sure . But the glidey feeling [considering how SHORT and wide they are , compared to my mal !] is actually a nice feeling , I reckon .

I think I will alternate between my 9’ mal [when fixed] and my “bushy fish” this summer , just to see how SMALL a wave I can paddle into on a small fish .

[sandy’s other comment on the “bushy” was "it paddles and floats well [ he is a full stone [14lbs] heavier than me , but around the same height . He is also five years younger than me , and a pretty good paddler , for someone who hasn’t surfed much in the 7 years or so he’s been carnaged …er …I mean , married ! His wife , sure enough , went BALLISTIC on him , when he mentioned he surfed a nudey beach . Silly man …he won’t tell her where he surfs , EVER again , now !! heehee …live and learn , “Sandy” !! ]

cheers

ben

13

Well… I’m the one who doesn’t surf backside for sh!!t… I’m sure all of my boards don’t care what direction they’re headed. I did find the fish a bit of a steep learning curve compared to my single fin… no sense paddling for waves early because they don’t hold much momentum, and there’s a couple extra paddles needed to really get it in there… after that you better have your feet in the right place, or things get hairy :slight_smile:

It’s funny what you said about smoothing out your style… A buddy of mine has been trying to eliminate ‘the hop’ from his repetoire. I’ve been telling him that a few days on my single fin or fish will likely solve that problem for good :slight_smile:

Chip… I had similar revelations… when I pop up on my fish I tend to stay low… squatted on the deck… but my stance isn’t spread, my feet are close together near the midpoint or fore of it. I have to throw my rear foot back to cut back though… Kind of awkward, but I’ve become used to it. Is this a normal tactic when surfing a fish?

Poor Sandy…