Hey Herb

Just wanted to let you know that I will be sending your package out by the end of the week. I’m rounding up some interesting stuff to send out your way (maybe some muddy waters with the stones circa 70 something). I know you don’t expect it, but its just my way of saying thanks. I am definately doing a traditional fish on my next board. I chickened out last time when the blank I had turned out different than what I had expected. Anyway it will be 6’ bottom length with the center point up two inches at 34". Nose will be 17", width 21", and tail 16 5/8". It will have a 6" deep swallow tail. I am thinking about placing the fins 4" up from the tips of the swallow and all the way out to the rail. With the front of the fins brought in toward the stringer 1/8" (instead of the typical 1/4", or should it be parallel to the stringer?). The cant will be no more than 4 degress (maybe just perpendicular to the bottom?). I am thinking a slight rolled vee for the bottom shape. I am looking for that skatey feel with the short turning radius and lots of S turns, but not to the point where when everytime I shift my weight forward the tail releases. Is the fin placement overkill, in your opinion? Is the flat bottom or the rolled vee the only two real options for a traditional type fish? Any info is as always greatly appreciated. Oh yeah the rocker will be pretty flat, maybe 3 1/2" nose and 1" in the tail, and the board will be 2 3/4 thick EPS (should float me super good), triple 6 glass. I want this board for a longboard alternative and will be ridden in FL mush. Thanks again.

Just wanted to let you know that I will be sending your package out by the > end of the week. I’m rounding up some interesting stuff to send out your > way (maybe some muddy waters with the stones circa 70 something). I know > you don’t expect it, but its just my way of saying thanks.>>> I am definately doing a traditional fish on my next board. I chickened out > last time when the blank I had turned out different than what I had > expected. Anyway it will be 6’ bottom length with the center point up two > inches at 34". Nose will be 17", width 21", and tail 16 > 5/8". It will have a 6" deep swallow tail. I am thinking about > placing the fins 4" up from the tips of the swallow and all the way > out to the rail. With the front of the fins brought in toward the stringer > 1/8" (instead of the typical 1/4", or should it be parallel to > the stringer?). The cant will be no more than 4 degress (maybe just > perpendicular to the bottom?). I am thinking a slight rolled vee for the > bottom shape. I am looking for that skatey feel with the short turning > radius and lots of S turns, but not to the point where when everytime I > shift my weight forward the tail releases. Is the fin placement overkill, > in your opinion? Is the flat bottom or the rolled vee the only two real > options for a traditional type fish? Any info is as always greatly > appreciated.>>> Oh yeah the rocker will be pretty flat, maybe 3 1/2" nose and 1" > in the tail, and the board will be 2 3/4 thick EPS (should float me super > good), triple 6 glass. I want this board for a longboard alternative and > will be ridden in FL mush. Thanks again. Mike are you like 6’ tall and 200+lbs.?>>>I would personally dump the vee,and sub.it for a slightly cupped mono-concave starting behind the middle to fadeout just before the fins.TRIPLE CONCAVES ARE OKAY BUT IN THIS APPICATION IT NOT GOING TO MAKE A + DIFFERENCE. fINS>it really depends on the size of fin.With a standard keel type with a base of 6-3/4" or more,and a height of 5"+ I would stay around 7-1/2" up from the tips to the trailing edge.This will very alot with fin size!!!I measure toe with a straight edge,because I feel it is more true to the board…If you want it to turn a tighter radius a quarter inch ,more down the line an eighth will do. Off set the trailing edge somewhere between 1"-1-1/2" from the rail.I like cants between 3-6 degrees and usually sit on 4.>>>TRY AND GET SOME THICK ASS FINS 1/2"-7/8".>>>Also try and use a turned down boxey rail with a tucked 1/4" bottom edge ALL THE WAY AROUND.KEEP THE EGDE SHARP IN THE TAIL UP TO ABOUT 18" and slightly smooth out the edge in the nose about 18". If you do this you won’t regret it.Herb.p.s. if you make the fins straight up,and down,and even with your stringer,it will ride great in small stuff,but if you try and stick it in any kind of lined-up,big,suck-out stuff…well all I can say is happy spin-outs.

Mike are you like 6’ tall and 200+lbs.? Hi Herb, you know the only scary thing about fish fins is their Perminent. I would hate to glass on two big marine ply keel fins at 7-9" only to find out that they should be at 5 3/8" like a Skip Fry or Christensen I’ve seen. What happens to a 6’0 Fish when fins are forward(say 7-9") or back(say 5-6"). And what was the major imrovement over the Lis Style marine ply keel fin and the current available fish fin with the slight rake(maybe 1") i see now? Thanks for your generous comments.

Believe it or not 5" or even 4" up will work fine,but if you are using a more modern template on your fins(more rake) you can move them up with less penality.The depth of the split in the tail,as well as the shape of the inside curve will alter this placement.Herb.

Yes I am 6’ 200lbs. and I will be using future fins setup. The link below will show you what I am thinking about. They are at the bottom of the page listed as FT. They have a 5 1/8" base and are almost 5" tall with a moderate rake. I figure that I am better off going with the fin placement future back, that way if it feels too stiff I can go with a smaller template. I thought this would be the safe bet. What you think? And you think a single concave under the front foot is the way to go? I would have thought that would make the board feel squirrelly. Thanks a lot for the info. I really appreciate it. http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/SurfSailcom/Future_Fins_2/future_fins_2.html

hey herb, i was just about to get started making my fins… glad i checked in and read this one. i was going to make some marine ply keels for my ‘disaster fish’ and i saw how thick you said they should be. why is that??? should they stay relatively thick throughout or just have a thick base to a thin tip? and should i round both sides or make the inside face flat? thanks again disaster steve

hey herb,>>> i was just about to get started making my fins… glad i checked in and > read this one. i was going to make some marine ply keels for my ‘disaster > fish’ and i saw how thick you said they should be. why is that??? should > they stay relatively thick throughout or just have a thick base to a thin > tip? and should i round both sides or make the inside face flat? thanks > again>>> disaster steve …1/2" is fine,but at least 3/8" thick!!! this is just the base thickness,the foil should be gradual,but thinned out in the tips,and trailing edge.The inside of the fin also should be flat.Herb.

Yes I am 6’ 200lbs. and I will be using future fins setup. The link below > will show you what I am thinking about. They are at the bottom of the page > listed as FT. They have a 5 1/8" base and are almost 5" tall > with a moderate rake. I figure that I am better off going with the fin > placement future back, that way if it feels too stiff I can go with a > smaller template. I thought this would be the safe bet. What you think?>>> And you think a single concave under the front foot is the way to go? I > would have thought that would make the board feel squirrelly. Thanks a lot > for the info. I really appreciate it. …THE FIN PLACEMENT:is up to you,but I would go at least 5-1/2" up at least with those fin dimentions. …The concave is a throw in.A totally flat bottom is better in all around conditions,but no vee !!! Herb.

I think I will go with that fin placement (5 1/2" up, much thanks). As far as the 1/4" tucked bottom edge all the way around. Does this include the inner curve of the swallow tail (the groin)? I always thought that it was best to have a flat edge all the way out the back, and that it made the water releasing off the back of the tail kind of roll when it came off. Is that just hype? And won’t that 1/4" tucked edge on the back third of the board make it looser because the rail at the tail does not have as much bite on the face of a wave? I don’t mean to badger you with questions, I’m just trying to figure this out. I don’t want to limit the area on the bottom of the board that I can push off of. Thanks a lot.

…THE FIN PLACEMENT:is up to you,but I would go at least > 5-1/2" up at least with those fin dimentions. …The > concave is a throw in.A totally flat bottom is better in all around > conditions,but no vee !!! Herb. Herb, I would think at least a touch of vee would be of some benefit. My question is, why leave it out? I guess I’m old school thinking there needs to be some vee in the tail. By the way have you seen the Tudor/Nuuhiwa fish? Saw two yesterday at a shop in Haleiwa. Was wondering how accurate a replication it is if you have seen one. God, they wanted somewhere around $900 bucks for them. Thanks, FD

I think I will go with that fin placement (5 1/2" up, much thanks). > As far as the 1/4" tucked bottom edge all the way around. Does this > include the inner curve of the swallow tail (the groin)? I always thought > that it was best to have a flat edge all the way out the back, and that it > made the water releasing off the back of the tail kind of roll when it > came off. Is that just hype? And won’t that 1/4" tucked edge on the > back third of the board make it looser because the rail at the tail does > not have as much bite on the face of a wave?>>> I don’t mean to badger you with questions, I’m just trying to figure this > out. I don’t want to limit the area on the bottom of the board that I can > push off of. Thanks a lot. Mike, you are right about both,the inner curve of the swallow shouldbe flat/knivey,as well as the last 18" of board. Sometimes I don’t tranlate the information well!Herb.

Herb,>>> I would think at least a touch of vee would be of some benefit. My > question is, why leave it out? I guess I’m old school thinking there needs > to be some vee in the tail. By the way have you seen the Tudor/Nuuhiwa > fish? Saw two yesterday at a shop in Haleiwa. Was wondering how accurate a > replication it is if you have seen one. God, they wanted somewhere around > $900 bucks for them.>>> Thanks,>>> FD …Ya I’ve seen a couple, they’re within the ball park ?,but not exact.When my brother Ray went to the M.Dora memorial services at H.B. Pier,he brought his yellow, Terry Martin,David/Dyno fish with him…I think before David even asked, he snatched it out of my brother’s hands, to look it over real hard.(my guess is he doesn’t have a real example of an original).>>>You can put vee in it sure,but the board will tend to roll more,and skate less.A true fish is to be ridden flat,and from rail to rail,not in a rolling fashion,plus vee will slow it down due to it’s shorter size,and wider width…(I just can’t wait for the industries heavys to jump all over me for these last statements).Herb.

Which shop in Haleiwa? mahalo, OJ

Just had to jump in here and tell you that the last batch of Chargers ( si! con Glitter!) were icing on the cake today. I got in a rare midweek sesh, held my card on a sketchy forecast for yesterday and bam! played it today. Headhigh plus, feathering offshores, riding a 6’2" Bluefish with chargers, what a day. Surfed all day with a Huntington transplant from Houston, the guy was hoarse from hooting so much. To anyone contemplating this fin setup, set the extra plugs, they work. TS

Hey Herb, my preference is for that bit of vee and a double barrel concave which I feel balance’s out any drag created by adding vee to the tail. I am currently riding a 6’4" with this bottom. Do you wanna race? Best regards sk

Name the spot ,and come up with a time that fits. I got a couple boards here that will re-define “Board Speed”.At any rate I would love to swap ideas.Herb.

Which shop in Haleiwa? mahalo, OJ OJ, I saw the Tudor/Nuuhiwa fishes at Haleiwa Surf N Sea, the one next to the bridge across from the Chevron Station. By chance are u a fire fighter? FD

HI, how are you? Love those fishes your doing. A 6’4 would put you out of the realm of the 6’2C blank, what is the prefered blank of the 6’2-on up shapes? Also, how did you know which DIMs to use for your shop boards, did you actually get to study an original? Those sure bring back seventies memories! Keep up the good work! What are your feelings about the marine ply no rake keel fins(original LisStyle), I wonder why Nuuhiwa didn’t incorporate that fin style in the early fishes?

HI, how are you? Love those fishes your doing. A 6’4 would put you out of > the realm of the 6’2C blank, what is the prefered blank of the 6’2-on up > shapes? Also, how did you know which DIMs to use for your shop boards, did > you actually get to study an original? Those sure bring back seventies > memories! Keep up the good work! What are your feelings about the marine > ply no rake keel fins(original LisStyle), I wonder why Nuuhiwa didn’t > incorporate that fin style in the early fishes? >>>>> Surfhungry, the blank I use for the Nuuhiwa fish is the 7’3"E. It has the thickness profile that you need for this type of board. As far as dimension’s are concerned I went in a few different directions to arrive at the approximate numbers. First I tried to find some one that had one, no luck. I then went back into my SURFER magazine archives (I never throw them away)and studied two ads that David was featured in, which gave me a pretty good idea of where to get started. And I had fishes back in that era from Dyno and later from Terry Martin. The are not exact Duplicate’s of the original, they are very close with a bit different bottom contour’s (more vee of the tail and double barrel concave’s) than the original. As far as Stevie’s fish is concerned they are different in Quite a few way’s. He use’s the double side foil on his fins, the fins are generally run parallel to the stringer, and are on a 90` angle to the bottom. The most recent example was a board that Tom Curtiss has.It’s about 6’6" with a more streamlined outline , the nose and tail being more pulled in. Tom say’s it works great.As far as how and why David’s fish is different I don’t have the facts regarding the difference’s between the two. My theory is that David saw the Lis fish and went back to his shaper (Steve Brom?) and they came up with Davids version.As far as the marine ply wood fins are concerned the look great, and are lighter in lb’s compared to glass fins.I loaned my 6’4" to a friend of mine to try the other day. He’s a young shaper that I work with ,and is familiar with modern, thin performance tri fins.His idea of a fish used to be something around 6’0" -19 1/2 -2 1/4 ,double wing swallowtail type thing. He now has a different perspective and shaped a new one for himself .Best Regards, SK