high line ..on a fish ??

General Discussion
1

I was wondering if those who ride a twin keel fish are able to hold a line like this ?

I ask , because I’m having difficulty in quick sucky drops with mine, trying to pull in from the takeoff . Mine , however, has more curve in the area from [my] hips down to the pod. I’m wondering if the traditional more parallel railed design would sit in the pocket a bit better…or not ?

Obviously , the photo above is of a thruster (with probably more nose and tail rocker than traditional fish[es]) . Just a reference photo in terms of what I was trying to describe.

I would be keen to hear people’s experiences of the tube riding capabilities of the traditional twin keeled fishes ?

And , any tips to help me brush up / develop a bit more finesse on a fish…

 thanks, much appreciated ! 



      ben
2

Personally what i do in the situation you have explained is when i get to my feet, i get up with both feet closer than usual towards the center of the board. This way, you will have the quick line of speed to make it out cleanly, but with still a little chance of sliding the keels out.

3

yo ben, brad here again

been some supa fun waves out in front here all this week ,after work sessions till dark- turns me into a swaylock weekend warrior!!

anyhow, as i’ve said before, im a bit of a fish fanatic. everyone around here says “nah-fishes are bad for your surfing” but im all about adjusting styles and having different boards for diff conditions. I have had in my quiver a large number of fish and twin-fin boards over the years and i still struggle to predict how each new shape is gonna go.

A high line like in your photo is a pretty radical ask of your average fish- but i have had shapes that like the real sucky days. the most sucess- tube wise- that ive had on fish have been like 5’9x13 3/4"x19"x15"x (2 1/4"), thats a very full nose ( you might have noticed) but pull some serious curve in from the 15" tail rear. flat entry then into a rather extreme bonzer channel( to pace-up that water flow a bit. large stiff twinzer is fine if set right, but i always like to have a rear center fin box installed, just so you have the option- often i foil down something like 1" high for in here.

my other tips would be keep the thickness down and the rails lowish ( i reckon a good fish planes well on its flat rocker curve and width- not excess foam!) and make sure you can shave on the sharpness of your rail- from side fin toe all the way back, helps you to pull in right from take off with all that extra bite at your disposal…

oh yeah, and obviously ride the thing a little more front foot than you would your 6’2 (or whatever).

so much fun to bust air, and rip it up when everyone else is moaning about how mud the waves are!!

mate -this rather long winded reply is just my personal preferences, and good for my size,beach,skill level etc… im sure someone else might say the polar opposite… oh well

talk to ya soon brother- any waves for you this week?

4

flowchild and heist…

thanks very much . They are two of the most helpful responses I’ve read regarding fish design and technique for quite a while.

Short of watching derek hynd on litmus for the 50th time [in slow motion, of course],it’s really good to hear technique tips from other surfers.

13 3/4 is actually narrower nosed than my fish, Heist, mine’s 15" nose [can’t help feeling that does inhibit tube riding a smidgeon sometimes. I feel I may need softer rails up front.

anyways, thanks for your help ! 





 ben
5

Chipfish,

I see you mentioned Litmus…Does that have some good fish footage in it? I relatively new

at shaping and really enjoy riding and making fish boards. I’m trying to find any surf movies

out that show some decent fish footage. If you know of any other movies that you would

recommend, let me know…

thanks,

Wayne

6

Wayne -

The footage of Derek Hynd in Litmus is poetry in motion, especially with the trippy Galaxy 500 song that accompanies the footage. It definitely blew my mind and sent me scurrying to shape a fish.

I am relatively late to surfing (grew up in the mountains and started surfing in my late 20’s) so I didn’t grow up on a thruster like most surfers my age. Dont get me wrong - I am not down on thrusters and I still use a thruster as my all around travel board - but I am glad that I saw Litmus because the footage of Hynd immensely broadened my surfing horizons.

For other good fish footage, check out Searching for Tom Curren - twin fin surfing on radical waves.

7

Good question, Ben!

Something to think about… traditional fish designed and used for kneeboarding will definitely hold tracks like that! Many kneelos will also say that modern fish quads stick a high line even better… on the wall, and deep in the tube.

Although not for everyone, learning to shape and ride fish both as kneeboards and footboards is of great benefit.

BTW… the surfer in that photo cant hold/sustain that position. Its just a fraction of a moment in a series of arcs.

8
Quote:

Chipfish,

I see you mentioned Litmus…Does that have some good fish footage in it? yes indeed !! derek hynd at j- bay… great footage…does some DIFFERENT stuff [as only derek can !] Tom… see : "fryed fish experiment’… STUDY this in slow motion / freeze frame…how to hold a rail in through a turn on a twin keel skip frye fish…BEAUTIFUL !! And, from a minute or two of the internet footage I’ve seen of ‘chords at j-bay’ , the fish footage in that looks alright too, dan malloy , kelly slater… hope this helps ! “chip”

9

Yo Chip

I have had some success in hollow surf with my Fish – I have found that with such a short board (5’6" or 5’8") you can set your edge using one of the keel fins to pull in under the lip rather than dropping to the bottom and coming up into it. Positioning is key – let the wave come to you, spin around and paddle at an angle, and slide in behind the peak. Without all that foam infront of you, the board just seems to fit into the curve of the wave.

I haven’t slid out going frontside, but I prefer a thruster for late takeoffs on the backhand. Pigdogging a fish is difficult for the reasons you describe – too much nose area and too wide a tail. For some reason, on my forehand I am able to come in at an angle and get under the lip a and into the pocket easily. Backhand surfing a fish in hollow waves is a whole 'nother ball of wax – one that I have not had success with.

Peace

Kit

10
Quote:

BTW… the surfer in that photo cant hold/sustain that position. Its just a fraction of a moment in a series of arcs.

… deano, more of the same… [ali g] "no doubt !! "

.JPG"]

 'chip'
11

A fish on a wave that fast might be going too fast for its own and the riders own good.

on another note…Hiest

why would surfing fish shapes be bad for one’s surfing? Is it from the perspective of the 2 1/16 thick, 4 oz thruster blue torch airshow crew?

if i can only surf fish for the rest of my miserable, well thats just fine.

12

Hey waitaminnit.

How and what the pros ride is largely irrelevant to many of us. I won’t dispute that competition improves the breed, but few of us operate at a pro level.

Next, the photo at the top of this thread isn’t one of a guy holding a line. He’s up high, but he’s not holding a line up there he’s trying to get down before he’s sucked over. It’s tremendously delicate to “hold” that high in a wave, so while many/most of us can get up there momentarily, getting back down safely is foremost on our minds.

One more thing about the pros and the photos - the shots are there because they are extreme examples of our sport, situations not attainable by the average mass. Who’d look at average pix of average guys anyway? Don’t get caught up in the photo trip.

13

OH!!! come on!! the fish has been THE choice for kneeriders for 35 yrs.The board was designed for very,very , very, HOLLOW waves.If your fish won’t ride super high in square waves it’'s because it’s poorly made…enough said.

14

yep, I’m not dean morrison at lance’s right.

Never will be.

As I said at the beginning , it’s a reference photo… to show positioning… and a visual aid, for what would take a lot longer to describe.

… People do READ these postings , before replying , yes ? [I do wonder sometimes !]

My question was / is dealing with technique.

And finesse.

And , THAT was the feedback I was / am after, not a debate on whether the fish is / isn’t a good design [!!]

I want to try and explore the potential / limits of ALL my different boards. [ I COULD just as easily have asked the same question regarding my 6’4 deep double concave single fin. But, I didn’t.

The fish is what I ride at least 70 % of the time here though, so I’d like to keep [hopefully] improving on it.

Anyone else with some good tips / experience / observations of the ’ high line’ into the tube [and even trimming high, a la derek hynd in ‘litmus’ !] on a fish… your comments and advice will be listened to eagerly by me. And , hopefully, absorbed and practiced in my next hollow surf session [whenever that will be!!]

Feet positioning [thanks already!], holding an edge, speed generating [and harnessing] ... those sorts of things... TECHNIQUE!

It’s always good for me to hear and see people who have given their surfing and technique/skills some thought, and can pass it on to others…I’ve always thought not enough of that goes on in surfing between us everyday surfers…

Okay… thanks in advance for any and all further help and feedback on the ‘high line on a fish’ !

      cheers! 



       ben  ["chip"]
15

I ride my fishes in hollow beach break surf. Backside or front. The only thing that limits me is me. My ability level or lack of ability on the boards. I have more trouble with the fishes in mushy waves. When its double overhead and heaving into three feet of water do I want a fish? Maybe not. But, then I’m probably on the beach watching anyway. I’m no Hynd or Curren. Not too many are. Those guys can ride any kind of board.Mike

16

yo . thats pretty much it. my beach is very hard to describe- big and grunty almost every day of the year , very local, very staunch, and we have produced many of the best surfers to come from nz. so in most of my pals eyes if youre riding a fish and surfing front-foot style, youre only avoiding the real waves out the back. dont get me wrong, i love this place, and the thrashings it hands out, but i am one of the few who dabble in fish design and occasionally specially-shape boards for the reforms.

17

Chip check your P.M.

18

Hey chipfish good to see you alive and well on this BB.

I’ve only had my fish out on a few head high hollow days and had my ass handed to me qite a few times bt I did notice that I was able to hold a really high line like the photo when I was backdooring the barrel. I haven’t mastered the drop into barrel move yet.

19

HI LESider !

 I'm eternally grateful to you for taking the time to teach me how to post photos 'over there'...now this site is being subjected to "the chipper files", too !!  [see : "share the stoke " thread, among others !] 



good to see you here too, my friend... "spread the swaylocks word, brother" ...this place ROCKS !! 



[Tell them though, "Be warned, no trolls or abuse tolerated HERE..." [thank god!!] That would probably mean a LOT of the people 'over there' wouldn't be able to post here, or else they'd have to learn very quickly how to behave in a civil manner towards their fellow surfers. [Nothing wrong with learning THOSE life skills I reckon!] ...the sooner the better for most people. Make the surf and the world a better place.] 



Keep posting here LES, I'd love to see some of your shots again buddy!  [feel free to 'pm' me here anytime too...be good to be back in contact!] 



okay mate , I'm off to post some shots from the last week's surf here , on the "share the stoke " thread  



    ... I'll catchya later ! 



              "chip"
20

Persornally Im no fish expert but… I agree that having a swallon or different stance really makes a difference, ie. having feet closer together, see the litmus cover shot of DH.

Also I would like to see more fishs in waves like Gnarlaroo, Teahpoo, Waimea… It sounds stupid but the skys the limit.

josh.