Hollow Wood How-To Video and Kits

General Discussion
21

I really prefer not to have this conversation in the public sphere. I don’t think it furthers what we’re all here for – which is to have constructive exchanges of ideas. So I can only hope it at least provides some entertainment value to those who may stumble upon it.

Since I began posting on Swaylock’s as a builder of wooden surfboards, the encouragement, inspiration and positive response has been overwhelming… with the peculiar exception of two specific people – both of them established HWS builders.

Why is that? Really?

Without naming names, one I find annoying (albeit entertaining), the other just plain square. At first it baffled me. I mean these guys are well-respected, have obviously inspired lots of folks, and seem to really enjoy the whole process. And that’s GREAT, so why all this BS hostility (the emails too) to the new kids on the block? Only they know for sure, but one could guess.

As much as I’ve enjoyed the friendly debate so far, it’s getting a bit tiring. So I just want to set one last thing straight before I abandon this thread (not because I don’t want to participate, but because its become a waste of time) - Originality.

In response to your email – not your posting here - Give me a break! What an original title for your CD? So creative. Are you kidding me? The only thing that "your"system has showed me is that there are much better ways of doing it. For you to even imply that I have in some way used your ideas is just plain stupid. The only way I have used your ideas is to reject them as silly. Don’t get me wrong. I draw upon a long history of builders who’s true innovations continue to stand the test of time (the Lowells, the Beals Island brothers , Greg Holland, the list goes on and on) but I don’t claim ownership of their methods, I only use them with respect. I’ve tried to connect with you and to overlook your strange claims, but it’s pretty clear to me now where they come from.

You say “Please change the name”? “Stay original”? gee thanks sir. Are you kidding me? Any idiot who looks at “our” (notice the quote) method could see it’s more simple, more durable, more accessible, less costly, less toxic and in the end more original. So come to think of it you’re right, we wouldn’t want any confusion. I won’t name it that. Now quit your whining and build a better board.

We’ve built ten boards so far, How many have you built? And keep in mind, we’ve got 7 more due by the end of February. At this rate we’ll have 40 built by this summer. So ask me again then.

I’m kicking myself in the ass for answering you and writing this, and letting you bother me at all. But I just couldn’t resist. I guess I’m just not that mature yet. Sorry for that but the bottom line is our boards speak for themselves.

Don’t expect a response – it’s no longer a watched thread – lots of fun, but just too time consuming (and not good for my Kharma).

22

Hi Richie,

Sorry that you don’t get it. . . . IMO you are being ‘hazed’ a wee bit . . . . but please remember that those of us who you find annoying are really just joining in with your buzz, we are interested in what you ae doing, that’s why we are talking to you. . . . . … but setting yourself up as a an expert after a few months, you have got to expect a few chuckles from the gallery along with clapping and cheering ! Perhaps you could allow us to enjoy the funny side of it all as well as the serious side, I mean, anyone who puts in his bio that he’s eaten raw goat kidney and wrestled a bear in a tree (Koala?) as well as nearly surviving all those shipwrecks (oops sorry I mean surviving near shipwrecks ) is an entertaining fellow. . . . don’t knock it brother it’s all good publicity.

Oh, and in the words of Ambrose ( And other Western Gunslinging legends) . . . Ha Ha, Faked your Draw !!

Regards,

Roy R Stewart III (or IV)

PS I think that Paul has a point about the name of you proposed video, you know what googlebots are like, you might end up getting each other’s mail or something! How about “Plank on Frame Surfboards” or “Hello Wooden Surfboards”, or “Hallowed Wooden surfboards” or “KOOKBOX” (Retro that one) or something like that ?? :slight_smile:

:slight_smile:

23

oooooh… “Kookbox” …that goes back to the Tom Blake hollows… (which btw were pretty much built the same way- minus those cork rails and glassjobs) Thats awsome! Be careful boys, that one might stick! -carl

24

Hey Rich

The concept for the DVD is great, would it be a better idea to put some footage up of what you’ll have on it.

This thread should really be in the industry section but I’m finding it interesting the feedback you are getting from the more experienced people out there.

You and your mates are very new at what you are doing so don’t get the idea that everyone is against you, we just want to see how you go after 40 boards in one summer.

Should have things pretty well sussed out by then…

But you have to agree that you never rush wood, the wood itself will tell you when it’s ready…

25

Richie…

To set the record straight…

Quote:

Since I began posting on Swaylock’s as a builder of wooden surfboards, the encouragement, inspiration and positive response has been overwhelming… with the peculiar exception of two specific people – both of them established HWS builders.

Regarding my two posts on this thread:

Re: “If you wouldn’t mind, please not name it “Hollow Wood How To”…”

I saw your original post dated 12-23-05 6:11am, and out of respect for keeping this just between us, sent you a private e-mail reply, stating exactly what was in my posted response…My e-mail was sent on 12-23-05 at 9:59am …

From you, via-e-mail was your response…“Thanks for you interest the GSB Hollow Wood How-to Video. We’ll contact you as soon as it’s ready.Sincerely,Omniscopic Productions Inc.”

I waited 3 days for a specific personal response to a simple request…

Believing you’re busy and don’t always check e-mail, I posted what I did…

A simple e-mail reply to me, stating what you did in this thread, would have negated my need to post it as I did…

…As simple as that…

Next:

Re: “How many wooden boards have you built, when did you start building wooden boards, and how long have have you been riding wooden boards ?..Roy”

That is a valid question…

You are making claims about the durability of your product…

To be legitimate your claims must be backed up with a track record…

If you feel that six months is a valid amount of time to prove durability, say so…

Instead you “bobed and weaved” you way around the question…

Then when faced with your own words, you go on to claim that I’m not " encoragement, inspiration and positive"…

False claim…Go back and read every word I’ve written to you via e-mail or posted on any of the bb’s…Nothing even comes close to your claim…

Finally…

You say:

"The only thing that “your"system has showed me is that there are much better ways of doing it. For you to even imply that I have in some way used your ideas is just plain stupid. The only way I have used your ideas is to reject them as silly.”

[=1]

[ 3]"Any idiot who looks at “our” (notice the quote) method could see it’s more simple, more durable, more accessible, less costly, less toxic and in the end more original. So come to think of it you’re right, we wouldn’t want any confusion. I won’t name it that. Now quit your whining and build a better board. "[/][/]

What was it you said about “encouraging, positive and inspirational”…???..

[=1][ 2]Richie, I sincerley wish you great success with your boards and DVD…[/][/]

[=1][ 2][/][/]

[=1][ 2]Nothing I’ve ever said implies less than that…[/][/]

[=1][ 2][/][/]

[=1][ 2]Have a Happy New Year,[/][/]

[=1][ 2][/][/]

[=1][ 2]Paul[/][/]

[=1][ 2][/][/]

[=1][ 2](This post is also being forwarded to Grain Surfboards via e-mail)[/][/]

26

Tom Blake built his first “hollow wooden board” in 1926 and was issued a patent for the hollow wooden surfboard in 1932.

27

[=1]

Quote:

[ 2] Any idiot who looks at “our” (notice the quote) method could see it’s more simple, more durable, more accessible, less costly, less toxic and in the end more original[/]

[/]

Well, about simplicity, I think:

Plywood is available worldwide, it’s cheap and easy to work with. I’ve built 1 HWS using only an exacto knife to cut all the pieces. What about the timber you use? It’s not worldwide available, expensive and requires more serious tools to work it. I can build a HWS for 60 dlls or less (cheapest one came 30 dlls). How much do you spend?

About durability: You’ve spend the last 6 months building boards (as you stated in nomorefoam.com) My first board is almost 2 years old, poly glassed, and is as resistant as the first day. Not bad for a 60 dlls board.

About cost…well, everything is said.

Toxic? yeah, I like toxic stuff. Epoxy is not easily available in some third world countries, like mine. Maybe someday I’ll use it, but I’m just fine with poly by now.

Original? Mr. Jensen and Mr. Roy are ORIGINAL. Your method shares too much similarities with Jensen’s. I’m not the only one who thinks so.

Jack

28

What about Tom, he’s original too yeah? Are his boards chambered or built on a frame?

http://www.tomwegenersurfboards.com/boardmodels_page.htm

29

Wow, fun thread… Here’s the “positive encouragment” that I can come up with after returning from hawaii and having this be the first surf-related thing I read.

“Grain Surfboards” should obviously be named “two boat guys trying to make a quick buck off surfers”.

and:

Wow…6 months of surf experience and soon you’ll have made 40 whole boards??? Well, look out Al Merrick!

Okay, look, you guys obviously have a nice website and seem to make pretty boards… Methods do look a little similar to PJensen who has been a nice guy and never referred to use as “customers” (nofoam.com does look really cool,though, so thanks!).

Roy might be abrasive, but hey, reread the posts–he smelled the rat.

By the way, while you guys were fighting, pipe and waimea went off sat. to mon.

Oh, and finally, “Charge it”??? in Maine???

peace!

30

hey come on guys, we are all here to share our info, experiences, insight, ideas, methods and above all… HAVE FUN and SHARE THE STOKE!!! thats what its all about!!!

Ritchie, I for one would be really interested in your dvd coz hey, its about wooden boards and I LUUUUURRRVVV wooden boards!!!

I respect you just as I respect all the other wooden builders on this site (and the foamies!), AS CRAFTSMEN, to build a wooden board takes patience, planning, forethought and incredible skill, how good or bad it turns out is up to the individual and how much he/she is willing to commit to the project, my board has been going on for 5 months, working at least a couple of times a week on it, and it still needs final rail shaping, finish sanding, foiling the fin and then the arduous task of glassing it!

I commend ANYONE for trying a timber board and even more so for completing one successfully.

To ALL the wooden board crafters on this site “keep on keeping me stoked with your amazing work”

31

I started this as an email but then scrolled down and saw all those words.

WARNING TO ALL SWAYLOCKEANS: The following is an extremely trivial waste of time. If this sort of thing make you sick, I strongly encourage you to shutdown and go surfing.

Hi Paul,

Ahhh the truth comes out. I was holding out, honestly hoping you it wasn’t true but really ARE intimidated. Sorry about that. They are only insults if they can be. I did not mean them as insults. For example none of you point below are taken as insults. The reason? In my opinion “our” method is simply better in those respects. My apology was for making it personal, and that apology stands.

I invite you to post this entire exchange on Swaylocks – be my guest - I have no problem with that – I also have no problem being your nemesis. But that’s not what I prefer. I still think and hope that things are salvageable, But if not so be it.

I don’t think your ignorant Paul, and if your method is good it will continue to enjoy success. Just chill out and move on. I could go on and on defending our boards, but it’s just not necessary and would continue to be a waste of time. Our boards speak for themselves.

I only want to clarify one point.

When I said our method was more accessible, I meant because it is simpler and uses less tools, and thus makes the process of building your own hollow wooden board more accessible to more people. Try to think outside the defensive box next time.

That’s as far as I read in your email. But as I scrolled down I see you really went off. Nice work! Are sure your not a lawyer?

I can’t bear to read the rest - boooorrriiiinnggg. I’d be surprised if anyone else does either, but if someone does, can you please just drop it. Pretty Please!. No analysis please, no explanations, jut move on and build a board. It’s best for ALL. Swalocks Please stop this stupidness

In two months none of this will matter.

I really think we should take Robbos advice and move on this whole thing has become so god dam trivial.

I’m really really sorry this time!

----- Original Message -----

From: Rich Blundell mailto:rich@grainsurfboards.com

To:

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:01 PM

Subject: Setting it straight

Paul,

Out of respect to you, I’ve decided to take this conversation off of

swaylocks. Obviously, that form of communication (or at least my competence

with it), lacks an ability to communicate enough nuance. Amazing that it can

be so great for exchanging ideas and information, and at the same time be so

poor for personal matters.

Not that “writing” you an email has any chance of overcoming the same

challenges…

I suspect I’ll be roasted out there by my lack of cordial rebuttal, but I

made this bed…I’ll sleep in it.

Anyway, I have two apologies to make.

First to you. If I in some way I misinterpreted your original “dvd” email as

implying that we in some way copied you, Then I am sorry for using such

harsh language in reply. Don’t get me wrong, I believe every word I wrote, I

just regret the public display (However, I have to wonder why you found it

necessary to use the word “exactly” in your latest post, while at the same

time removing key words). Wait, don’t answer that, I really don’t care.

I also found It interesting that you decided not to respond to our friendly

email to you before this fiasco started - only to be so responsive in

public. Again don’t explain, I really don’t care…

I guess I could convince my self that you an innocent bystander. One without

the sense not to provoke an already buzzing hornets nest (my exchange with

Roy). Butting in to quote Mike’s email was low, admit it. Especially coming

from someone who has built about the same number of boards. But again, if

that is the case, my sincerest apologies.

My second apology would go the swaylocks community at large. I apologize for

participating in such a useless thread to begin with. Especially as it

degraded into crap. It will NOT happen again.

I’m willing to let by-gons be by-gons. Mostly because I’d rather be building

and perfecting boards and helping others do the same.

I wish you luck.

–

Rich Blundell

GSB

On 12/28/05 7:38 PM, “Paul Jensen” goofyfoot@thurston.com wrote:

Rich…

Thanks for the reply…I wasn’t expecting one…

I don’t consider you taking this off of Swaylocks, “out of respect for me”…I think you are hiding out here, because of the words you used there…That was the forum this discussion started in and I have no problem communicating in that venue…To me it’s exactly the same as this e-mail…I’m just as willing to put this on Swaylocks…I have nothing to hide…

Your two apologies are both accepted in the manner in which they are offered…Half hearted…

If you believe every word you wrote, fine, but don’t say you’re sorry and then fall back to say you stand by your insults…

At no point in any of my communications have I been whining…If you believe I have, show me exactly where, or offer to take those words back…You drew the line in the sand, and I’m calling you on it…Either back it up or offer a public apology…This I’m willing to push back on, and publically call you on it…



For you to say build a better board exposes your ignorance…

You claim that your boards are:

1 - Simpler - Maybe they are…What exactly is your process…And how many others have been able to replicate your method…???..

2 - More durable - A baseless claim, due to the fact that nothing you made is over 180 days old…Mine have stood the true test of time…Years of being surfed hard in the heaviest surfable conditions the North Pacific throws at Washington State…Get out your map or check the web for what our reality is… You simply haven’t a clue…

3 - More accessible - Let’s see, I can document that my way of making boards has been done for years now, on every continent except Antarctica…If you want a list of countries, I can provide that…My type of boards are surfed on every state on the West Coast, across the Gulf Coast, and up and down the Eastern Coast…Now you tell me exactly where your seven boards are…???..

4 - Less Costly - Lets see, a guy in Mexico made one for $60…And your costs might be…???..

5 - Less Toxic - I use wood, plywood, yellow glue, construction adhesive, fiberglass, carbon fiber, contact cement and epoxy…What about you…???..Anything different…

6 - More Original - Who, you…???..

From my web-site:

What I did was take the basic Tom Blake idea of a skinned, stringer and ribbed paddleboard, and brings it forward to contemporary?Contemporary rocker, templates and rails, strength and weight?A no-compromises accepted mission?.

„Originality‰?

I was inspired by the basic stringer and rib internal structure of a boat or airplane wing, but from there forward was all-original for me, at least as it applies to surfboards?

Starting with a gluing jig similar to what boat builders might use to create the planshape?

Next, I needed a way to be able to get those interior rails to match the stringer‚s rocker? I came up with router guides between the ribs?

With the basic frame complete, I figured out a way to laminate individual strips of thin wood together using something as simple as masking tape to hold it all together when it‚s being laminated with carbon fiber?

Carbon fiber reinforced interiors, that‚s original thinking?

Gluing the exterior skins to the framework with construction adhesive, not so original?

Then the really hard part was figuring out how to laminate the exterior finished rails to the skinned frame? With nothing but my carpentry experience as a guide, I tried three times with three different methods each taking a week, until I found a way for it to work? How frustrating do you think that was?.???..

Though the successes and failures I learned?Learned about the materials and the process, and more importantly, I learned about myself, and my ability to push on through the difficult situations where the only future that you see at the time is failure?

Back to the boards? Shaping the rails with a belt-sander was different, maybe not original, but it turned out to be the best way to it, at least for me?

Then glassing wood with epoxy was at the time, not something as mainstream as it is now?Where do you find out how to do that?A lot of time and energy went into finding out what works and what doesn‚t? All part of the process?More than once I was forced to strip off a layer of glass and epoxy, because the whole thing delaminated?

The rewards from each of these minor epiphanies was so rewarding, because it felt so original?I hope each of you gets to experience the emotional high when the creative process is fresh and it feels like you are heading down a path, no one has been on? There‚s nothing else like it?Intoxicating?.

When I started on my hollow boards, there were no websites at all on how a hollow board was done…NONE…You stated that you saw what Wegener and I were doing and came up with your own way…Now exactly how original is your method…???..Truly original…???..If you have anything to say, here’s your chance, otherwise I’m calling you out as a phony who can’t back up their claims…



As far as responding to your e-mail, here’s what I sent you…

Hi Mike…

I like what you guys are doing…

It’s refreshing that you’ve developed an original method of construction…

I really that…

Your boards look great and your web-site has a fresh feel to it…

Perfect for what you’re doing…

Currently I’m finishing a bit of boat modification on my “What The Hull”…

After the New Year, I’ll start another board…

Here’s a bit of background on some of the wood I’ll use…



I did a two week surf trip to a far away part of Vancouver Island last may…

We stayed at a cabin on a private island on the west coast…

(above) While we were there,

I helped one of the cabin owners make a couple of 43’ x 6"x16" beams

with an Alaskan Mill from a beautiful old growth Sitka tree…

Here we are making the initial cut…

It took 30 minutes per pass…

(above) Here Dan is free hand trimming the beam edges …

(above) See the 4x4 on the side…

My wife and I went back to the island for another week in September…

I went back to the “mill site” and got that 4x4…

I brought it back home…In January I’ll start my next board…

I’m not sure just yet on what design it’ll be, but for sure I’m using that Spruce…

I’ll get back to the island next year

and surf that board with that wood in those waters…

The completion of a cycle…

Stay in touch…

Paul



Next, as far as “butting into quote Mike”…Hey, he said it…You were obviously hiding from it, I just pointed out the “The emperor has no clothes”…You know, your durability claims, when you have no record to stand on…If you were honest from the start about the fact that you guys are relative newcomers to hollow boards, I doubt that it would’ve been much of an issue…But, don’t make claims you can’t back up, or don’t get offended when someone calls you on it…That’s the way it is on the web…Sure you can retreat like you did, but it shows no conviction in your claims…

My board count is ten…Each one I made for myself…Although I’m often asked, I’m not interested in building a board for anyone else…I put too much emotion in my boards to simply see them as a commodity…I prefer to not mix my thirty plus year passion, surfing, with business…I don’t need the money…If and when I’m willing to let a board go, more often than not I give them away…It keeps my life balanced…The “How To” cds I offer are because there are people who come to me wanting what I know…I gave it away freely for years, now I offer it at a cost…I have my reasons…

You state that the Swaylocks discussion turned to “crap”…At no point in that thread did I ever say a derogatory word about someone else…Get a mirror when you make that claim…

Again, if you are at all sincere about your apology, put it out there where it might mean something…

Paul



32
Quote:

What about Tom, he’s original too yeah? Are his boards chambered or built on a frame?

http://www.tomwegenersurfboards.com/boardmodels_page.htm

From what I have seen (I have seen pictures of Tom’s boards being laminated) he laminates them on a frame, three layers. . . a deck and bottom of half inch to an inch thick Paulownia, and a middle layer which is tapered fore and aft.

This method is similar to my own, I can draw it if you like, it looks to be an excellent method for low rockered traditional longboards, very fast and simple with a good result, also the method is able to be adapted very easily into more complex thinner decked more heavily rockered boards by using another layer.

As far as I know this is the method used by Pat Curren who makes balsa guns (which sell for $US10k to 12k)

.

33

Howdy Paul and Y’all,

Good times here! I’ve been living on a chair at Children’s Hospital since October 16. Just got out before Christmas. The outside world is real nice. We’ve dualled the grim reaper and won so far thanks to Gore-tex, stainless steel, and some real skilled cardiac craftsmen. I will spend a good chunk of the next 4 years in the hospital with my new little girl…multiple more open-heart surgeries and drug cocktails coming up. I love technology! Good times.

Anyway, I built two hollow 13’9"s and two hollow 7’0"s back in 1984. The goal was to build them in less than 2 hours each. Me and my buddy Mervin raced each other. We used 1/4" doug-fir ply skins, cheap pine sidewalls, drywall screws, caulk, and 2 coats of ugly green house paint…and wine bottle corks for plugs. Oh yeah…pine skegs. They actually took over three hours to make…bummer. And they were real ugly.

We surfed them at Seaside Point(where my friend Brian just got chomped by a Great White) on some beefy days (Paul knows). We had to drag our feet Tom Blake style to turn the 13’9"s. The 7’0"s had Sampsonite suitcase handles on the sides for easy carrying…and to bum out the locals. The all rode horrible…but not as bad as a Mctavish V from the 60’s. So I guess I might be one of the Swaylock’s hollow board veterans by default.

Paul’s boards are real pretty, I’ve surfed some real swell sessions with him. And it’s nice to see some New Englanders and Kiwis joining in on the hollow fun.

In the olden days, Mervin and I even poured our own PU blanks. I don’t understand why the Clark lovers don’t get more vertical and pour their own…that’s craftmanship…and it’s cheap!

Love,

Delbert Pumpernickel

34

Mike…

My heart just dropped when I read that first paragraph…

When we last surfed together D was just days from delivery…

Wow, what a surprise…

I can understand the anguish you a D must be going through, but if anyone can find the up-side, it’s you…

For what it’s worth, be assured that your little one will be some prayers, it can’t hurt…

If there’s anything I can do, please let me know…

Paul

35

G’day Holly, what you wrote really put this pissing match into perspective for those involved, all the best to you, your partner and your little girl, happy new year mate.

Regards

Rob Morris.

36

On that note gentlemen, pissing match over, I will now lock this thread…