Jim,
Most all of the oldest Hawaiian boards I’ve seen have very thin rails, flat to concave decks, full length rolled hull bottoms, minimal rocker, semi-wide square tails, and finless. No narrow pintails or roundtails.
1)How do you think these boards might compare performance-wise to the much later (late 1930’s to 1940’s) finless “Hotcurl” designs?
2)Is it possible that ancient Hawaiians were using designs and a style of riding that modern era surfer/shapers have overlooked?
Thanks
I recently spoke with George Downing in my shaping room while he was looking over the boards. He said some of the bigger board were 6" thick or more, while others were lens shaped, with the rails meeting in the thinnest of a sharp edge.
With the width of the ancients tails, I don’t think they held a very high line, this is why Wally Froseith, George, Fran Heath and John Kelly embarked on a new direction of reshaping the ancients into what was to become the “hotcurls”. At the grand opening of the Heritage Surf Museum in San Clemente, there was one hotcurl that broke away from the design that had been know to work well, it had less V and more of a hotdog hip. The notation on it said that it slid ass and wouldn’t hold the line
Has anyone ever made an exact copy of an ancient Hawaiian board design for actual use? To see if they couldn’t hold a high line, etc.
Do you know anything about Dale Velzy making modern “Hotcurl” versions? I heard some of them were made to be surfed, not just for display.
I don’t know if Tom Stone still visits the forum, but he would probably be a good source of information.
http://www.hlfhawaii.com/index.php?page=news&sub=press&number=11
@ years ago Tome was riding a Wiliwili (Hawaiian balsa)at Sunset, it was a replica of one of the Hwaiian ancients.
Wide point set forward, thickness too, the bottom featured roll throughout the board.
It held in and it was then I saw the old designs being turned in an almost modern way. My thoughts were, 500 hundred years ago, there were already the Hawaiian ancestors
going for broke, not just riding straight to the beach
Do you know anything about Dale Velzy making modern “Hotcurl” versions? I heard some of them were made to be surfed, not just for display.
Dale did scan one of his hotcurls and then had some foam boards made for riding. I never road one but I would’ve liked too. He’d say that we should try one, it would teach us how to surf all over again. I am bad enough that I don’t need to learn all over again.
Aloha,…
I’ve attached two photos of Tom “Pohaku” Stone with a koa board he shaped last season, (not oiled yet in photo).
Tom takes his Hawai’ian heritage serious and makes each woodenboard with the spirtitual and traditional means as possible,…from making offerings to asking and giving blessings to the living life that will continue in the board.
I’ve also, pictures of the retrieving of log, sacrifice, shaping and blessings of KEAHOLANIMALI’O, the wiliwli board that was broken in-half at Avalanche, with discussion with Rabbit.-----just ask and I’ll post
Jim’s right on when he mentions that the ancients may have been further along in design,…and that prior to contact,…most knowledge in design may have been lost…since design was passed down through oral chants.
Aloha, Randy…p.s.,…see ya this winter Jim
Randy. one of last winters highlights was Tom and his wife stopping by the house, he is such a vast storage trove of Hawaiian lore. After you get past feeling intimidated in his presence and can start freely asking him questions about our great sport, he has more answers that I had questions. His approach to riding the hotcurls that I had built was refreshing, stalls under the lip, whirling around at the last second and no paddle take offs under the tube.
Tom Eberly, a shaper who did Lopezes, Rory Russel’s, Rabbit’s and many other North Shore stand outs, has said the Tom was overlooked as “Mr. Pipeline” before Jerry came into his own. He also graced the cover of Surfer Magazine more than once
on the cover of surfer I might respectfully add.
the lads noble countenance un ruffled by external forces
and seemingly un affected by realms commercial
seemingly the downfall of others swept by overwhelming noteriety.
,amc iii,
go stone
YEP
THATS
COOL
forgive me if this is an ignorant question, but how[well] would the foam replicas hold the line, being so much lighter? and is weight one of the important design factors in hull contruction?
I think if one was made out of foam it would float too high in the water to be effective even before you account for the weight.
I believe they were all constructed out of regular weight foam and glassed to match - heavy. Sure they weren’t as heavy as their wood cousins and I never talked to anyone that surfed one so I can’t comment on their actual ride. I’ll see if I can dig up a photo.
Jim and everyone else
,…Sorry, it appears that the first try at Tom’s pics was a bust so here we go again for another try,…you’ll see our boy Danny on the deck.
Yes, Tom is the real deal and he hasn’t lost a step,…so to speak, Still chargin’ the North Shore.
Here’s a shot of Dale and a foam Hot Curl from Barry. I believe Dale had cut the tail too narrow and was
pissed but Jim retemplated it and saved it.
I di’nt do nuttin’ to da’ bosses board
"I saw several of the ancient Alaia boards when I visited the archives of the Bishop Museum in Honolulu. They were beautifully shaped and clearly made for a specific style of surfing. A year after seeing them, I began to ride the ancient shapes and quickly became addicted to them. They open whole new worlds of surfing stoke. They are fast; they tube-ride really well and make small waves really fun. They are also a real challenge to master. When I saw them in the museum I wondered how anyone could possibly surf them but I am surfing them better with every session. Getting an understanding of how they are ridden just takes time and patience. Don’t let anybody tell you surfing in the ancient times was primitive! The thin Alaia is made for tube
riding." (Tom Wegener)
Criminy…he’s gone Roy. 
