I think people have a ceiling when it comes to surfboards prices, and remember boards generally always being around the $450 - $550 mark … when it gets more than that they start to feel they are being ripped off somehow …that’s from the one man band shaper type board makers …
Then somehow, if there is a brand / marketing whatever thrown in people will pay $100 - $300 or more …
A mate got a board from a backyarder guy here the other day … $450. Mate did not want to pay anymore than $500 max. After I went through the time / labour cost analysis and material breakdown, he was surprised the guy would be barely making $50/hr … and yet, this mate gets basically that every shift and way more when doing nights, weekends and overtime.
I think the issue lies in people not understanding what goes into making a board …
And perhaps some hidden jealousy knowing the shaper / board maker can go off surfing if the waves are good …
[quote="$1"]
I think the issue lies in people not understanding what goes into making a board ...
And perhaps some hidden jealousy knowing the shaper / board maker can go off surfing if the waves are good ...
[/quote]
A big factor too is people not understanding what goes into running a business. I'm continually amazed (in my field, which is remodeling) at how many (otherwise intelligent and educated) people confuse the amount being charged with the amount being made, when in fact a huge chunk of the money charged goes into overhead expenses, and very little goes into the pocket.
move on i see no backyarder here
harry its all good fun haa’’ you know what you need to charge
cheers huie
harry its all good fun haa’’ you know what you need to charge
cheers huie
Good fun? You bloody old wombat, yea it is, when I shake this flu, have a lot of things I want to do, combinations, fuck, it could almost be called work. I’m home honey.
Great website JH, everyone should check it out! I hope your feeling better.
The tough part is what segment of the market you are looking to attract. Personally, I am a big fan of social media and like to see it utilized to drive both education and commerce. Websites nowadays are a decent fallback resource for the information that can remain largely static, but if the desire is to drive through to the younger demographic, a more active approach via twitter or a shortform blog format like tumblr or wordpress is key…but it takes a dedicated, sustained involvement to gain a following and to turn that following into consumers.
Your website looks very good. Very informative with a nice clean layout, but in this day, unfortunately a website alone is not enough. The good part of twitter or a short blog is that it’s very easy to tailor the message to appeal to various targets.
As for how much…it’s tough to convince people to view a shaper in the same light as their builder, plumber, electrician, etc… Most people aren’t purchasing much of anything that is handcrafted like a surfboard can be. The downside is that without an education into what it takes to build a board (a many people won’t care), some may not even know the difference between a $99 Bic from Costco or a custom shaped job the same that many won’t know the difference between a handcrafted chair from seasoned hardwood or a machine made junker from SinoSits Manufacturing.
In the end, sadly, much of it comes from perceived value for the brand. It’s a proportional relationship between brand value and cost questioning. The higher the perceived value, the less the questioning and therein lies the long, arduous climb that very few summit.
Ask yourself if your boards are as good as the " top guys " and charge the same price , if your boards are better than the “top guys” charge more . if by "top guys " you mean those who mass produce boards with machines and cheap labour then it should not be too difficult to make a better board , if your boards are not as good as the “top guys” charge less , why should you get less for the same or better board , never sell yourself short . If you get a rep as the guy to go to for a cheap board you will always be that guy . Surfers are cheeeep , you know that , deal with it , SELL your boards , tell the bastards they are lucky to be getting one of your boards , at the end of the day if you cant get a fair price for your boards you cant be in the board building bis because you cant make a liveing , dont starve dont live in a hovel its not worth it , do something else and make great boards on the side , you wont be the only one this has happend to and you wont be the last . Make boards that you are proud of for people that want your boards because they are great not because they are cheeeep . And good luck in your endevours .
I seriously doubt he was getting even that much.
Surfboards are far too cheap for what goes in to them.
A craftsman of Harris’s caliber shouldn’t have to be scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Huie, I know what I should be charging and on the website I have charged a fair price. I am genuinly interested to know what punters think would be a fair price for us to make after costs for shaping, running a business, 40 od years of knowledge, $100, $200, $300?
Ghetto, thanks mate on both counts, starting to build back up, slowly, hopefully on both counts too.
Doyle, thanks, I agree with what you say, mostly. As far as the summit goes, there’s 2 kinds, 1 as how your boards go and the other one is business. There are guys here that have climbed and reached the summit, treading on everyone on the way up to try and take over the world, then toppling over the other side, only to land on a pretty safe ledge and leaving some destruction in their path, ie small guys with unpaid monies, so it’s not something I have ever strived for, whilst saying that, I realize how difficult it is to just work, always seems it’s one way or the other. My boards have sold for as much as anyones in my brother’s shop down the coast. At a charity this year, a mal of mine went for $1700 and the MacTavish Noosa 66’ went for $1500, so there are precedents.
Gbzausa, by the top guys, I meant from when I was starting out and lived on the Central coast, so Terry Fitz, maybe Simon, the guys with a pro team etc and now I guess the same, the guys with world champs on their boards, thats only fair, certainly doesnt mean I think my boards aren’t as good, I just dont need to charge as much, less mouths to feed. Thanks for your wishes too.
Chrisp, thanks Mate.
So how much do you reckon?
cheers H.
Back when I worked in the fishing tackle business I learned that many people are offended that you are making money off of them buying something for thier hobby. Strange as it may sound, many people expect it to be free since its for their fun and enjoyment… How dare you want to profit off of that!
“Fair price” has absolutely nothing to do with market value, unfortunately.
I have a good friend who is a respected shaper, and has the same problem as you with regards to his pricing. He should be charging WAY more than what he is, given his experience and talent, but then he’d sell a lot less boards. But if you make more on each board, you don’t have to sell as many to make the same amount of money, so you’re working less but making the same amount of money. You just have to figure out where those two curves cross of price vs. volume.
I know that really doesn’t help you, but if you’re the first to de-value your services, why would anyone pay more than what YOU are asking for?
On a website-related note, as a full-time web developer, the site looks good. I checked out the source and it looks like you don’t have Google Analytics installed - http://www.google.com/analytics/
I may have missed it in my quick look, but if you haven’t got Analytics running on your site, you should. It’s free. It’s the most important tool to tell you how your website is working for you. It can tell you all kinds of interesting stuff on how people are finding you and what pages of your site they are looking at. You can cross-reference that by location and see if you are attracting a local audience or if that ripper you shaped a board for up the coast is turning a bunch of guys on to your website from 2 hours away. You put all the hard work and effort into building a nice site, now it’s time to make it work for you and help you get business.
Just took a look at your web site , very good , if your boards are as good as they look in the pics you should have no trouble selling boards , really liked the hot dog board maybe next time im in oz i will come by to get a cheeeep board LOL . I was very interested to find out about your involment in the red top fin I use one in my Aipa 8.10 sting love it .
Ooops sorry I forgot what I was going to say , I agree with Lawless , charge more not less , work less for the same money , create a legend that it is hard to get one of your boards , bullshit baffles brains , and always remember surfers are cheap .
The surf/skate/snow business is a tough nut to crack, perhaps tougher than most others and even within that minute segment of the over all “sporting goods” segment, surfing may be the only remaining bastion of hand crafted, custom tailored equipment being still considered attainable. Think of it this way, are any of the regular sports equipment sets anything other than mass produced, off the shelf goods? The only exceptions I can think off would be the truly ‘pro’ levels of equipment in some areas of archery, shooting, perhaps baseball gloves, etc… Everything is mass produced for the most part which, in turn, places a lot of onus on you, as a commercial board builder to both impart the knowledge to educate your customers to sort of justify pricing and to build loyalty.
Is it fair? Well, that depends, but it is what it is. Stroll into most shops nowadays and nearly all clothing, the brands that were the shit to have 30 years ago, those brands that differentiated a ‘real’ surfer from a poser, are the same brands mass produced in Pakistan or Sri Lanka or Vietnam. Birdwell’s being one of the few exceptions, but unless a consumer wants that exception specifically, most go for the Quicksilvers or the Counter Cultures made for peanuts, sold at premiums.
But I can tell from the thoughtful consternation in your replies that isn’t what you’re about. There are careful, calculating, exacting craftsman out there, wanting nothing more than what they consider a fair wage in exchange for imparting a lifetime’s worth of experience into a board that to the layman, may look no different to the board thrown out of some factory by a guy who was sewing the layman’s boardshorts last year.
It’s a real shame, but that is the crux of reality in which many of us find ourselves. Some of us are in a position of understanding and enough knowledge to say we would gladly pay a premium for a custom made board knowing that some of the premium goes towards ensuring the survival of the small business but how many of us truly exist and are willing to buy boards on a regular enough basis to keep the small to medium guys going? Unfortunately, and I think the market largely reflects this, not enough of us.
Sadly, many have to delve into the mass produced because mom or dad don’t often see the value of a small, custom shaper, when the shop down the street sees a board that looks the same for the same or less money. Do you deserve a premium for true craftsmanship, of course you do, the problem is who perceives that crafstmanship as valuable is not always the only opening their wallet. Good luck to you and to all the commercial builders that have resisted the pull of outsourcing, you are the exception and the exceptional. It would be a sad day when the cobra’s of the world, decent products or not, run things into the basement to the point of making the custom builder extinct.
double post sorry
ah yeah huie lol my missus is moaning to get off the laptop and get out of bed…i gave a one of my vinyl jobs to someone today, thinking i was going up the mountain but it fell through . so baby sitting and finish the longboard thats been sitting in the shed for two months .
what do we do this for anyway . oh yeah
wohooo out there
hi john some industries have a cap wrt location. consistentency is the key if you think you can make a bit more off someone . dont do it and likewize dont give discounts unless its for seniors.if im working on hourly it goes something like this. 45$ per hour invoiced 35 for c ash … materials plus 50% margin. up to double for materials is acceptable. then an overheads charge. i find Bout 50 to 60$ per day covers my vehicle shed and tools and phone.but i have the luxury of working from home it would be more if i had an industrial shed but i guess that would only be 10 to 20$ a day more.
so how long to make a shorty 8 hrs mebe 360$
materials are not sure on the goldy. probably 130 ish$ so double that $260
overheads say $80
so around 7 to 8 hundy would be a good living of around 70k a year and you can tie up a lot of your living costs into tax deductable expenses
i think thats all right money for a guy potering around a shed with free time for the kids and surfing and skitrips.
thats wat im doing and boards are only about 5 percent of my business but i do get full price for them when i do them
i would spend at least 2 months full time with kids, surfing and snowboarding broken up through the year