I have been tipped over sideways a few times, happens very quickly!
Probably from turning as a surfboard and applying too much effort. I think you need to be gentle.
This session I decided I would only go straight, no turns ,and see what the foil did.
It came up, and thinking about it I may have lost it by trying to turn, there was a sup catching up to me !!!
So I’ll fit the new foil to a bigger board.
If wider is more stable, do I go wider and keep the area the same by going shorter as well ?
Or do I go wider and keep length as is, effectively adding area ?
Is there a reason for the foil template being wider at one end compared to the other ?
SGO, I’m amazed you broke the foil, that’s amazing but maybe a bit too much area in front of the front strut ?
Turning is a very gentle process of thinking about turning, and it then happens without any effort.
Because of the smaller overall area compared to a surfboard, it doesn’t need as much grunt to get it to turn. Just like the GoFoil it’s about subtle shifts in weight rather than putting effort into it. And once you get that, it’s Almost effortless.
The only focus should be on getting the pitch angle right, the side to side just happens naturally.
Get a wave with a long shoulder and just focus on setting a line ahead and lifting gently. And a shorter board is definitely easier to ride so maybe move to a shorter board if possible ? I rode a prone foil board for 2 years until I thought to use a shortboard and a greater distance from the foil makes it harder to control but the experience of so many previous waves made the transition to standing no problem. But I understand that it will be a few sessions to work out a completely new world above the waves.
Much like a surboard template, the width at the nose controls how stable it is going into turns and the width at the tail controls your drive. So a wider foil nose width will be more stable and a wider tail more drive. Adding area makes the foil lift quicker so if you’re heavier or on small waves, more area is good but then less area is needed as you surf bigger waves. I really wish I was there to help each of you to get it right the first time.
I built a specific short board for foiling in 2013 and invited locals to try it and the first guy stood up on his second wave and every wave after and never fell off. He caught a few dozen waves that day. Not big waves but from a 2-4 ft face and he was completely absorbed but did mention that he though it was sensitive to pitch angle ( nose up or down) Hes also 25 and a martial arts specialist so his balance is very sharp but it was his first day on a foil. He was on a 23 in long x 16in wide foil so that’s why I recommend a longer or wider foil for new foilers.
The good thing I hear is that you’re safe on the foil and you have no issues with it being attainable.
it’s just a matter of learning the knack, the trick, the groove, and then it’s all good from there.
Once again I wish I was there to offer the bursting array of foiled surfcraft piling up at my front door and advice so you know it’s definitely different but it’s also within reach if you stick with it.
If there’s anyone interested who lives in Sydney give me a call and we can work through the test boards and definately get you foiling on that day.
**** photo removed due to personal embarrassment ****
Actually, I think this process is working pretty well just the way it is. People don’t value a skill that’s just handed to them (here, try this) as much as they do when they have to work for it a little. I’m not trying to learn how to be “just a user”, but how to incorporate these concept into building surfboards. So I think you SHOULD limit your sharing a bit until people absorb some of the basics and are in a better position to more fully appreciate the refinements and additional insights.
For example, you just dropped a nugget on us that flipped a switch for me the moment I saw it:
“Because of the smaller overall area compared to a surfboard, it doesn’t need as much grunt to get it to turn.”
I see that and the realization that pops into my head is that we’re surfing a much smaller footprint both in length and width, so of course the effects of the control inputs we would normally use for the larger footprint will be excessive. Exacerbated by the additional leverage of the separation between the foil and the deck we’re standing on.
So that’s one angle I’m envisioning for the foil with the big donut hole. It’s a way to increase the length and width of the foil to smooth the ride out without using an uncontrollable amount of surface area.
Managed a couple hours this afternoon to play with this. Took a few waves to manage a turn. Got it to lift on the first wave (2-3ft reasonably clean) but eat the first 4 waves trying to turn. Like already stated earlier, it’s a subtle shift required & need more hours in the surf to try & get it dialed. Foil is 17" x 26" & struts @ 10"Already working on another foil & struts. Scary happy so far. Thanks again for this great thread surffoils.
“So that’s one angle I’m envisioning for the foil with the big donut hole. It’s a way to increase the length and width of the foil to smooth the ride out without using an uncontrollable amount of surface area.”
That’s Exactly how it works.
I understand about not saying too much but these are the basics so I’m giving everyone all the startup theory and advice and then I’ll step away. What you’re building is not what I’m riding now but I’ve given hints about shorter struts and using the surfboards rails for turns. When you get confident , even on a prone version, you can truly carve, snap, stall, get air and it’s fascinating to ride. For the quickest foil experience a prone board is extremely easy to control with exactly the same foil and struts. Maybe dig up a snapped surfboard and try that as well.
Speysurfer,
Good to hear you’re having fun and got it to lift on your first wave, it’s a freakin blast isn’t it ! But stay away from closeouts,
Classic comment- " Scary Happy ", it’s both terrifying and addictive.
Those struts look fully pro. Which way are you going with your new foil ?
Just a few years ago.
Ok decades, but I just got these few photos from my first girlfriend in California after a trip to Hawaii. Seeing guys like Dane Kealoha on home soil was a real surfing education.
Definitely a blast, had great fun with it, but suck at it, Only managed a couple hours, started to get to used to the feeling of lift which also makes a 3ft wave seem bigger! But turning is slow and twitchy, I did snag a couple lefts but came off trying to turn along the face more often than not! My uncles boat building apprentice had a racing moth dinghy that had foil’s on it & I loved it. Been fascinated watching Laird etc. I occasionally windsurf & have seen them with foils. I had to try a couple, but wasn’t having any success, until today (the foil is sound, my ability on it is not, yet!) & all credit to you & your generosity, you beautiful man you! You’ve got me & others thinking. I still need a lot more time with it though. I’m going for a similar shape foil but narrower nose & 28" x 18" on the same board, 6’ 4" x 22" would rather go bigger and then remove vent/doughnut hole later if needed. Also shorter 8" struts & possibly only 3? It’s absolutely addictive & will prob keep me terrified & happy for the foreseeable. Slanj
I’m stoked that you’re trying it, getting some success and customising it for yourself. Youve shown that you can foil on the first wave, that you don’t need a 23 in wide foil like the Gofoils, and that you don’t need a foiled foil for lift.
The board can be any board, the struts can be reduced in number to 3 quite easily as you guessed Speysurfer.
But the foil is the design area that will be the most fun, different designs are for crumbling waves, some for hollow and because there’s a limited speed range you’ll find that you prefer a 210 sq in foil, or a 220 or 230 that’s dialled in for your weight and balance.
They’re holding a foiling info night just down the road from me, Ill definately go to that.
How can you dampen the effect of a foil breaching the surface?
Or is that not a ‘wipe-out’ prone event in any case?
.
Baron vs Wright, adjusted as an elliptical arrangement?
The higher you go, the less lift you will need to deal with?
@MrMik:
Basically, use a bigger foil and/or a shorter strut length.
I can’t speak for these foils exactly, but foil breaching in general leads to wipeouts.
BUT the largest ones, like used for SUP as opposed to kiting etc., don’t always crash when they breach.
They have so much surface area that they can plane on the surface a bit, and recovery is easier/smoother than with small foils.
It comes down to surface loading.
The big conventional foils are about 200-250 square inches, similar to what surffoils is showing here.
The other factor is strut length.
With struts 2’ or 3’, the wing breaching or stalling leads to the board nose diving at an angle that’s often unrecoverable.
With struts 1’ or less, the angle is much less, so the board does not pearl every time it comes off foil, if it has some speed, it can bounce back up, so to speak.
In kiting this makes it really easy to recover with a short strut, as the kite is still pulling you.
Surfing, recovery may be a challenge still, if you have lost the speed that kept you on foil, only the wave can give it back, and you may not be in the best position for this when you come off foil.
If you are cryptically alluding to biplanes or ladder foils, these have been done but not caught on so far. The more wing elements, the harder to build and tune ($$$) and the more drag. This is why conventional designs use one strut and have to resort to metal and carbon for rigidity. it’s interesting surffoils has had success with as many as 4 struts.
I may be wrong, but I’m thinking of struts in terms of surface area, just like a fin. A single 24x6 strut has 144"2 of surface area per side.
I’m doing (4) 8x3 struts and putting a decent foil on them. These have a 1/8" G-10 spine sandwiched with 5-ply 1/8" aircraft ply. (they’re almost done, I just have to add the tabs.
In handling these and considering I’ll be using 4 of them I am now thinking that 3" wide is probably overkill. They’re so solid. If I can get the foil-to-strut attachment to a close-set 2 screws I could probably use a 1" or 1.5" wide strut. I think the chord-to-thickness ratio to get an effective foil might eventually end up defining the minimum width as far as supporting the foil is concerned.
I can well imagine a future iteration involving a short strut like 4" deep and using narrow struts up front and wider struts in the rear - like a fin. Or even a 2+1 cluster that puts two narrow struts up front and a single wider strut (keel) in the rear,
I am seeing a lot of the right questions. I think gdaddy is right about starting with only basic/essential information initially.
Sometimes design evolution is about thinking through the questions several iterations out.
It reminds me a bit of the final scene in the Outer Limits episode, “Final Exam” (season 4, episode 16).
Yes, I was alluding to using a cluster of foils, so that a surface breach is a smaller event and reduces the lift just a little bit.
Maybe that could widen the range of speeds possible with the same foil.
Like a foil with several ‘gears’ .
those are some nice looking struts gdaddy! if you figure out how to make the connections strong and reliable, theoretically they could be thinner, then again, 5mm screws on the tail of my kitefoil bend when I crash it badly (into a sandbar). Leaving enough beef for 6mm or 1/4" is probably smart.
OR metal struts if you need the thinnest?
