howzit - a webber surftech with the dbl concave is in my shop now. I got to ride it then copy it - every last measeurement you could think of. The board rides incredible for a 6’ - snapping turns instantly (I weigh 160lbs@6’2"). What has happened is the customer now can have them (his favorite big money shop board) made over and over by me - someone who still makes them! Then I give him a way better price than the store and he can make subtle modifications to the board. His surftech only lasted six months on the big island. He;s got a month now on his marko eps 6/6 deck with patch and 6 bottom with dbl fin patches that I made him. No dings yet! The shop owners are the a -holes not putting there foot down and they will pay. There custys will be back GSI in hand bitchin and complaining. What about my warranty will you fix this crumbling rail for free right now - I have to surf right now blah blah! The fin plug fell right out - I swear! The surftechs last six months - GSI’s last even less. They are crap and the price reflects it. If they didn’t pay for the big guy’s names and shapes to be on them they wouldn’t be shit.
unfortunately
this is 80%-90% of the interaction today in the custom market…
http://forum.surfermag.com/…p;page=0#Post1429741
its a very common problem
and why alot the oldtimers just buy off the rack
grab’em,feel’em, eye’em, buy’em
walk out the door and go surf’em
that’s is until you you find a guy that still remembers why…
and why I’m sticking with my shaper
cause I know he cares deeply enough to not send crap my way
just because I “won’t know the difference”
and even if he’s taking it in the sheets to do so
And true
the client doesn’t need to be there
most customers can’t even articulate what they want
its a tough job to do
but some have figured it out
Thanks for the headsup about GSI quality( lack of ). Any experience of the SLX construction quality? Seen on Surfermag a while back someone laughing at the twists or rails I think.Agree that the Webber surftech shortboard works well (probably the only surftech shortboard that I have seen surfed well) Swapped onto one in the water myself and worked pretty good. Picks up waves well for 6ft 1" it think was what I tried.
Mark
Wow, i read the response to the first post, very interesting reply!!!. After that, i would never ever buy anything from someone like that.
I think I’m probably part of the demographic Modern would like to market to. I’m 58, I don’t get to surf that much, but I grew up surfing pretty much all the time and when I want a new longboard, I want it to turn. What I see in the pics of the Modern is a board with too much nose rocker. Dennis Ryder’s board above looks like it goes through the water better. For what it’s worth.
Mike
Just had a buddy/customer come back from a week in Hawaii
said he had great surf and lots of fun but didn’t like the EPS surftek
he rented and said he would have ripped it up more if he had “Big Blue”
(one of my PU customs)
EPS has no additives that make it “flex better”, it is just different material.
Perimeter stringers in EPS/PU are an interesting change in longboarding
and should be explored in EPS/PU customs.
I have some older riders who have both EPS & customs (by me) who
surf infrequently like Cosmo. Guess which board they pick when the
surf gets serious?
I agree with Bernie & Ace, you need to establish a relationship with your
shaper. When I was a gremmie (grommit to you southerners LOL), I found
a guy that worked with what I thought I wanted and made me boards that
worked insane for the time (and in the process, taught me how to shape).
He didn’t share all his “secrets” but let me in on what worked for what I wanted
to do so that I kept coming back for another and another and …
There are lots of ways to survive the invasion but if you are shaping longboards,
you had better surf your own stuff and do it well to compete with the invasion.
Just my 2C…
(If I didn’t shape what I ride, I would call Griff in a flash!!! Why he got a cold
shoulder here, I’ll never understand)
Mike,
The PSQ paddles really well, catches waves really easy and maneuvers great. Of course I can’t speak for the Modern.
On topic…
Almost 2 years ago now when I set up my lam shop with my two partners I wanted to carry on with how I market my surfboards… I don’t compete.
Each of us have plenty experience, have and pursue a high level of craftsmanship. So quality was not a issue. Because I didn’t want to chase dollars we set our pricing at a comfortable level but probably a little higher than other shops. However, to off set that we are honest, timely, dependable and service oriented. You can compete on price but the other stuff? You either have it or you don’t. My philosophy has always been if you have what others don’t you don’t have to compete. And, if you have what people want they will come to you. And usually once they do they seldom go anywhere else.
I look at my surfboards in a similar way. When you have one, aside from being a fine foiled machine, you have all of my experience, all of my history wrapped up in that one piece of foam and fiberglass. It has value beyond the purchase price. Each one is a part of my story and I don’t have to compete because my story is unique.
D.R.
This is not aimed at anyone, its only my thoughts and questions…
Now then…
Do these sorts of disscusions happen every time someone decides to invest a bunch of money into buying bulk materials,
and/or hiring cheaper labour/apprentices,
so that they can make a cheaper product…
And then selling that product cheaper than the bloke around the corner to increase HIS bussiness ?
OK… ok … the cheaper labour may result in their product not being as good and it may not last as long…
But isnt this only going to help GOOD shapers, who make GOOD product…?
Dosn’t it encourage somone who may not have been able to spend 1000bucks on their first board,
so they buy the cheaper option,
then if they like surfing and are getting better at it, They will buy from you ? No ??
(or god forbid it breaks after 6 months and they relalise that they should have come to you in the first place)
This is not an attack,
but I only see two the major problems with cheap alternatives,
that there will be more people/kooks down your local taking your waves,
or you can no longer sell your average looking/surfing boards to Newbies for top dollar.
howzit - a webber surftech with the dbl concave is in my shop now. I got to ride it then copy it - every last measeurement you could think of. The board rides incredible for a 6' - snapping turns instantly (I weigh 160lbs@6'2"). What has happened is the customer now can have them (his favorite big money shop board) made over and over by me - someone who still makes them! Then I give him a way better price than the store and he can make subtle modifications to the board. His surftech only lasted six months on the big island. He;s got a month now on his marko eps 6/6 deck with patch and 6 bottom with dbl fin patches that I made him. No dings yet! The shop owners are the a -holes not putting there foot down and they will pay. There custys will be back GSI in hand bitchin and complaining. What about my warranty will you fix this crumbling rail for free right now - I have to surf right now blah blah! The fin plug fell right out - I swear! The surftechs last six months - GSI's last even less. They are crap and the price reflects it. If they didn't pay for the big guy's names and shapes to be on them they wouldn't be shit.
This is not close to accurate wrt my personal experience. Both Surftechs and GSI are made in the same factories in Thailand by Cobra. That company has instituted very high level quality control standards that far exceed those in place at US factories. Now, I am not saying a GSI is better than a good US glasser, but it is better than lots of US glass jobs. These are MUCH MUCH better than the Costco REALM boards, and are good enough for over 90% of the market to use and not see any difference.
Also, I think the longboards that are the topic of this thread are not epoxy but Pu/Pe. GSI started making all Pu/Pe, and their epoxy models are specifically marketed as epoxy models - Pu/Pe is the standard. The “modern” longboard is not marketed as epoxy. They basically founded on the principle that they could make Pu/Pe boards for rack sales (not customs) for dirt cheap. About a year ago they were WHOLESALING for under $100 at the surf shop (shortboards). The longboards are, I am sure, more, but not THAT much more. The shops make a good profit margin on GSI boards. If they are selling these for $675, they are making close to a standard retail markup on them - which is FAR better than shops make on US made boards.
Within a few years they will be the dominant producer of Pu/Pe low-end rack-sale surfboards, long and short, in the world. In part because the shops will push the GSI boards because they make more money from them.
So what is left domestically? High quality, custom, color work, and fringe market boards (like Bonzer and quad - and calling them fringe is sure to bring on the flames but they are each a tiny percentage of the entire market which is my criteria for calling them fringe).
And who is GSI using to brand their boards?? None other than
-
Al Merrick
-
Greg Webber - the shaper who popularized the shortboard concave
-
Bob McTavish
-
Steve Walden
-
Keoke Downing and Bonga Perkins and Dave Kalama