someone here said that because he grew up riding singles he adapted to the fish better. I would strongly agree with that – those of us who started off riding singles are more comfortable with a forward trim footing. When i ride it, i ride my fish with my back foot just between ( or on) the fins , or sometimes even just ahead of the fins.
I was never very comfortable on thrusters - even though i’ve logged more thruster time than anyother type of board – back foot right on the tail – don’t see myself going back to one either (brand new one’s just sitting for the last two years)
I surfed with Kenvin and some young cat from NSW(maybe the guy you speak of) in Mexico this past spring. Kenvin was on a radical twin fin Simmons type shape 6 foot board…and he ripped on it…doing many of the things that you see thrusters do but with more fluidity and style…making waves most guys were not. Could he have rode a modern thruster better??? Maybe…but he was having fun and aint that what it all about? Question the riders…not the guys on the beach about the level of the experience…What might look wrong to you …Brock or GG…might be heeps more fun than the crap they were riding prior!!!
Seems to me that generally…the boards that make you look good(poorformance) on a wave are not always the ones that are most fulfilling to ride.
Just to clarify: there’s a whole world of design choices between a potato chip rockered out thruster and a trad flat twin-keeled fish. I’m talking about the phenomena of fish riding whereby it has been elevated to some sort of cult due to the influence of canny marketing, certain filmakers and writers (chiefly Andrew Kidman, Thomas Campbell and Derek Hynd) and now the upcoming hydrodynamica. Fishes have become the “alternative” craft du jour and other more functional designs are being overlooked. This is a fashion statement.
As an example Silly you posted up a board recently with fuller nose and tail outline (quad, round pin) as a semi-gun you made for some guy to take to Indo. i have a very similar outline board shaped by Jim Banks. The thing is a totally functional surfboard. I’m seeing guys rock up to Lennox point when it is OH or bigger , pulling out thin-railed fishes with no rocker and really struggling. They’d be having a lot more fun riding a design more like that.
A lot of guys around here have put a little more meat in there rails, lowered there entry rocker, added a little tail width and are riding thrusters (or quads) with zero flap, amazing top to bottom surfing…it’s carving as the shortboard pioneers envisaged it.
Shortboard riding at the top end has had a bit of a quiet evolution lately…I used to think like you Silly: one pro looks just like the next. But the lines say Joel parkinson is drawing ( the arc of his cutback, the line into his top turn) are very different to Taj or Andy or Slater. Not that I am any pro whore, but watching Joel surf an OH point break is a thing of immense beauty , power , style and creativity.
I am seeing those facilities retarded in surfers of equal ability because their board choice is being dictated by fashion, or to prove some filmakers point.
Don’t get me wrong, in weak lined up waist high point surf they go fast and are great fun but there is a very good reason the design evolved. It just feels like the collective blinkers in regard to fish designs need to be taken off. Steve
I like my wide thick fish because im an intermediate surfer, and its bloody easy to paddle, and i can surf tiny waves. Throw in awesome speed on steep, and its a ton of fun. I have found though that backhand, im no good without a small trailer. But, then when the trailer is in, my front side isnt quite as “loose and squirty”. Catch 22.
BTW, the link didn’t work for me.
P.S im taking my fish out today, for the first time in about 6 weeks, cant bloody wait, im hangin!!
I think you’re basically correct regarding the limitations of conventional fish designs, but not with respect to modern fish hybrid concepts. I would refer you to the short article in a recent issue of Surfing about Dave Rastovich. He has no board axe to grind, and is one of the most fluid and intuitive surfers I’ve seen. His board choices are dictated by his needs and experience. He says he has no thrusters under 7 feet and explains why his performance fish designs simply work better for him up to that length. I could tell you about my twinzer and how it works, blah blah and so forth, but that’s just me and my opinion. Rasta’s quiver and his wide experience
Definitely need to realise the limitations of the design and grab the right board according to the conditions. I start looking to other designs in my quiver when it gets big enough. However…
I recall watching Bells from a couple of years ago and thinking how mis-matched the top pros equipment looked for the waves they were riding.
It was a decent size but quite fat and they were struggling to get speed. Normally they are generating it at will but not that day in those waves. While I was watching I was visualising how the waves could have been ridden with a board with some extra width to plane across the faces faster.
For me the traditional fish shape was a stepping stone to current day interpretation. If I hadn’t started riding a fish I may have given up surfing by now.
i built a few and i dig them in low tide mushy point breaks to headhigh
they seem to maintain speed on flat shoulders
which makes for fun surfing when the waves lack power
you can keep speed through late cutbacks or ride the nose when he wave mushes out
also they suit my heavy front foot
so a few style point there
but your right
Quote:
A lot of guys around here have put a little more meat in there rails, lowered there entry rocker, added a little tail width and are riding thrusters (or quads) with zero flap, amazing top to bottom surfing…it’s carving as the shortboard pioneers envisaged it.
im totally agreement to this
but you dont see them on in any of the surfshops
a wide thruster or modern plane shapes setup for big guys do work hell of a lot better than a fish in quality waves
ive built another of that exact planeshape for myself
its only a 6 4 (im 36, 6 ft 3 and 85 kg plus a 4/3 wettie)
a lot guys go longer and longer like 7 2
but they leave the width below 19
so they loose there vert surfing in anything less then half overhead
if you wanna keep a progressive style as you get older or fatter
you need to go wider through the nose and tail
your right about parko
i take it back(most of then do surf in a similar style though)
As a film it’s been(being?)a long time coming. that said, i’m looking forward to seeing the final product. THAT said, i just sold the Pavel four fin fish that i waited and struggled to get over the span of 18 months----Why? because i missed the feeling of the center fin in the 5 fin bonzers that i’ve been riding since 1990. i gave the board 2 and a half months , here in NJ, down in hatteras and further down south in Costa Rica----final judgement—nope not for me. nice stick, looks great, etc etc…i rode fish the first time around back in the day, had some issues, but really enjoyed them----then came the five fin bonzer!
It’s just a surfboard. Like ALL surfboards a fish is a compromise. Gain something here, loose it there. They probably suit a certain type of surfing more than another. Ride what captures your imagination. Paint on your canvas and let others paint on theirs. Just surf and be stoked you can. Mike
As a film it's been(being?)a long time coming. that said, i'm looking forward to seeing the final product. THAT said, i just sold the Pavel four fin fish that i waited and struggled to get over the span of 18 months----Why? because i missed the feeling of the center fin in the 5 fin bonzers that i've been riding since 1990. i gave the board 2 and a half months , here in NJ, down in hatteras and further down south in Costa Rica----final judgement---nope not for me. nice stick, looks great, etc etc.......i rode fish the first time around back in the day, had some issues, but really enjoyed them----then came the five fin bonzer!
Ah, the irony! So you didn’t like the board? You must of fallen off the wagon,
As a film it's been(being?)a long time coming. that said, i'm looking forward to seeing the final product. THAT said, i just sold the Pavel four fin fish that i waited and struggled to get over the span of 18 months----Why? because i missed the feeling of the center fin in the 5 fin bonzers that i've been riding since 1990. i gave the board 2 and a half months , here in NJ, down in hatteras and further down south in Costa Rica----final judgement---nope not for me. nice stick, looks great, etc etc.......i rode fish the first time around back in the day, had some issues, but really enjoyed them----then came the five fin bonzer!
Ah, the irony! So you didn’t like the board? You must of fallen off the wagon,
the bandwagon.
bandwagon, shmandwagon. you can’t lump everyone who owns or rides a fish into the fashion-plate category. it’s a practical design & has it’s place. i own (& regularly ride) a 5’10" twin keel & my current favorite & “go-to” board (a 6’4" 5-fin bonzer) is loosely based on a modern fish i first rode back in the late 90’s. & i’m pretty confident that if i hadn’t gotten on that board, i’d be an exclusively longboard surfer today. not that there’s anything wrong w/ that, i like riding a longboard & my sister has no interest in anything under 9ft long, but surfing’s a lot more fun for me on a shorter board…the real key to all this is letting go of the “this is my thing” mindset & picking the right board for the conditions. as has been previously mentioned, there are vast possibilities out there in regards to designs & fin set-ups…pick something that looks interesting & try it. as much as some folks may not want to admit it, thomas campbell, et al have a point…open your mind
Ron , just saw the article you mentioned and I have to say " don’t believe everything you read in the mags". Rasta may indeed be one of the most fluid and intuitive surfers going around but he is also sponsored by Billabong , a very large publicly listed company. They pay him to get his mug in mags and movies and if mags and moviemakers think fish riding is fashionable and will sell them product then that’s what Rasta will ride (at least in front of the cameras).
Check the hockey stick fin thread and then judge for yourself what to make of Rastas claim that he thinks quads are a fad and hasn’t ridden one since he was 14. I also saw him riding in late Feb a modern thruster and ruling on it so his claim that he has no thrusters under 7 feet in his quiver comes out looking pretty shaky to say the least.
Geez, the truth is very easily jettisoned to suit the latest “thing” going around. Rasta sure ain’t no Tom Curren who did show real integrity and experimentation in his design wilderness years ( also very interesting to note how quickly he abandoned trad fishes). Anyway I’ve got nothing against fishes I think they taste delicious.
Traditonal style fishes ridden with the correct technique is a joy to watch and a wonderful sensation, but is very rarely seen. Most surfers dont adapt there style to the boards at hand they just get on them and try and surf them the way they always have, and on a fish that looks pretty horrible and pretty frustrating for the rider. It is the same as longboarding, classic riding looks beautiful few people will put in the time and effort to learn it. So they come up with the modern longboard something that is simple to ride everyone can use it, they turn, noseride what ever you want. Yet there is very little style or beauty in it, but they are keeping the masses happy because they are easy to use. Same thing is happening with the fish dilute what is special and may take a little while to learn about riding them. Manufacturers make them easy to ride so they are accepted by the the public and media but the magic and beauty has gone. Just remember that you know more than most of the people that write and edit surf publications.