Quote:
Might as well come out with it and call me a liar, why beat around the bush ?
.
No one’s calling you a liar… we just don’t believe you.
Quote:
Quote:Might as well come out with it and call me a liar, why beat around the bush ?
.
No one’s calling you a liar… we just don’t believe you.
And what is the difference. . . . some subtle nuance ?
Please explain
.
Quote:
Roy, why not just cross-verify with a radar reading or 6 and put the boys’ minds at ease?
greg
Radar readings are impossible due to the fact that the board could be travelling in any direction through about 120 degrees.
I am using the same method as the guys on Surfermag, the same method as Bill NBarnfield, the same method as Terry Hendricks and others who have posted speeds here including Dale Solomonson who posted speeds from his friend James. … . no one questioned the accuracy of THEIR GPS units or THEIR honesty, so to be perfectly honest all this stuff about not believing me is just the same as questioning my honesty.
The bottom line is that I know that I am honest and diligent with my speed recording, and I am enjoying the benefits of a faster board. . . … I will continue to report my findings. . . . make of them what you will.
The fact is that it just isn’t acceptable to guys like Kendall and Blakestah that a guy from NZ can make boards which are FASTER THAN BOARDS MADE BY ANYONE ON THE LIST. . … . . there’s no way that they can allow themselves or anyone else to believe it because it negates the ‘high and mighty’ status of the American surfboard makers hierarchy. . . .
.
I believe you are telling us what you believe to be true. I just think your numbers sound optimistic based on the information I’ve seen. You can prove me wrong, and I’ll be happy to eat my words… but I want any tests validated by someone I trust, at the beach, who’s not bias to any results.
By the way… I’ve said this before too… I think speed is over-rated. It’s critical to be able to outrun the wave, but I’m more concerned with manuverability. I want to dance with the wave, not spped past it. Different strokes for different folks.
Tests validated by someone you trust ?
It’s like this: I switch on the gps unit, clear the previous data, put it in a ziplock bag down the back of the wettie and go surfing, then read what the machine spits out. . … . the same as Terry, Bill, and the guys at Surfermag do… . . … you don’t think I can perform this task? . . . or are you saying that I am making up the data ?
.
Tom, I respect your ideas, but the way you present them is a little irritating. Maybe if you had a little humility people would be more inclined to accept your claims? It is hard for me to believe that of all the shapers and surfers in the world, you have come up with something that is so incredibly fast, and that no one else is using it. The rest of you guys should lay off him though, until it is disproven we can assume he is telling the truth.
Hi Nathan,
The rigidity of other people’s minds is not my concern, I merely report my activities as truthfully as possible.
Breakthroughs happen where they happen, surprising or not !
As for humility, the concept is irrelevant to the question at hand.
Cheers
Roy
Roy, I’m pretty sure radar guns read the 3D composite vectors
Then the fellas could have a high old time calling out the other guys, see
greger
Ive just taken my shoes off to do the math on this… ( assuming the speeds arent momentary and they are sustained for short periods of say… even 5 secs.)
At 60 KPH thats 16.6 m/s or ~85 m in 5 secs.
But if a 3 foot wave has a speed of ~16 KPH ( thats 1/2 speed of an Olympic 100 m runner), then thats 4.4 m/s or 22 m in 5 secs.
Thats a gap of 63 metres that should appear between the breaking curl of the wave ( pick any point) and a surfer doing 60 K’s.
If that kind of speed occurs, a surfer SHOULD be landing in the carpark , even taking into account the 3 -D aspect, thats still a massive distance to travel and still be on the same wave and in the same position.
Even if the 3 foot wave travels at ~30 KPH ( 8.3 m/s) thats still 42 m in 5 secs and a diff of 43 metres between the wave and surfer.
Thats half a footy field.
Im missing something, and its not just the hair on my head.
Spuuut.
Okay well if these values make any sense…
say the wave is moving shoreward at 16
The curl is breaking at 6
So the curl is moving diagonally at 16+6 x hypotenuse (is that right?) = (would that be like 22 + 11?)
The surfer’s drops vector him shoreward/dir. of curl 10 in excess of combined wave/curl velocity
= Roy may not be crazy
I mean crazy yeah, but the kind we like…
?
Hi Spuuut,
Not sure why riding 60 metres down the line necessarily lands one in the carpark. . . . at the Blowhole (one of my locals) a good long ride is between 300 and 600 metres, and sections pop up 60 metres down the line often, the fun part is to get around them.
Hi Janklow, 16 and 6 units like this?
And then add 10 units as the 3rd dimension,
From 16 KPH ( in one plane) to 19.79 KPH ( counting all 3 planes) And thats assuming that all 3 vectors are engaged continuously, that is surfing constantly in the 3 dimensions, not just trimming.
Its still doesnt make the quantum leap to 60 K any closer really.
And wheres the 63 metre difference that should be there if the speeds are accurate, that gap whould be the undeniable ‘proof positive’ without GPS at all. ( see post # 49)
63 metres being the distance created between a 16KPH wave and a surfer allegedly going 60 KPH for 5 secs. That gap just never appears, maybe the wave speeds up at exactly the same time…?
Roy, the math just doesnt add up,(despite how close the carpark may be.)
Spuuut.
But I could be wrong…
Hey Roy,
Are you using one of these to clock your speed?
I bought one for my wife last Christmas and was thinking about borrowing it for a surf session. It is an incredible little device. It isn’t water proof so I would have to do like you said, and put it in a water tight plastic bag.
Here is some sample output from one of my wifes jogs.
Darn it, Brett, what is all that?!?
The way I envision it the 16 is the long. axis and the 6 is the lat. but whatever
I may have been just projecting a scenario
carry on
say look how these lines of text
ebb and peak, err
okay
gerereg
Quote:
And wheres the 63 metre difference that should be there if the speeds are accurate, that 63 metre gap whould be the undeniable ‘proof positive’ without GPS at all.
The math just doesnt add up,no matter how close the carpark may be.
Spuuut.
But I could be wrong…
63 metre gap between what and what ?
???
Quote:
Hey Roy,
Are you using one of these to clock your speed?
I bought one for my wife last Christmas and was thinking about borrowing it for a surf session. It is an incredible little device. It isn’t water proof so I would have to do like you said, and put it in a water tight plastic bag.
Here is some sample output from one of my wifes jogs.
Hi Swied, we are using Grmin Etrex and Gecko 201, looks like the 305 is a goodie, is it easy to download and analyse the data ?
By the way best to use TWO ziplock bags, one tends to let water in.
.
Hey Spuut, I was gonna use the carpark. About 15 years ago I thought of an idea, to measure speed on a wave. I thought it would be a good idea , at the time. I registered the name, search for speed.com , and some other ones.I talked to Claw about it, he was into it. My idea was to set up 2 markers and use something like the police radar to get your number at places like Kirra and Lennox and maybe even have it as a side event at the wct’s. I even went and saw the local cops about it, nup could’nt do it. I asked my older brother , who should have been able to do it, nothing. So it is enlightning for me to read that you guys are doing it, if you are. Roy, there are people on this site that support you, believe it or not. I have got over everytime, on here and surfer mag, that there is a mention of my wing fin , you take it over with your tunnel. In the land of apple pie and icecream, where they just wont rewrite if they don’t get your sense of humour, I am calling deadset bullshit on you, for the simple reason , that if you have come up with something better than everyone else, you have not doubled the status quo. What are you guys scared of? Roy is unique and this site would be boring without him, but fairs fair, would’nt going noticably faster suit any designer shaper on the planet, I think so, H.
Quote:
Quote:Roy, why not just cross-verify with a radar reading or 6 and put the boys’ minds at ease?
greg
Radar readings are impossible due to the fact that the board could be travelling in any direction through about 120 degrees.
I am using the same method as the guys on Surfermag, the same method as Bill NBarnfield, the same method as Terry Hendricks and others who have posted speeds here including Dale Solomonson who posted speeds from his friend James. … . no one questioned the accuracy of THEIR GPS units or THEIR honesty, so to be perfectly honest all this stuff about not believing me is just the same as questioning my honesty.
The bottom line is that I know that I am honest and diligent with my speed recording, and I am enjoying the benefits of a faster board. . . … I will continue to report my findings. . . . make of them what you will.
The fact is that it just isn’t acceptable to guys like Kendall and Blakestah that a guy from NZ can make boards which are FASTER THAN BOARDS MADE BY ANYONE ON THE LIST. . … . . there’s no way that they can allow themselves or anyone else to believe it because it negates the ‘high and mighty’ status of the American surfboard makers hierarchy. . . .
.
All you have verified is that when you measure the speed of your surfboards, they come out TWO TIMES as fast as the speeds others get on similar size waves.
You have not shown that you go twice as fast as the next faster surfer via your videos. In fact, it looks pretty similar to what any log can achieve.
Thing is, the speeds you report are as fast as the jetski odometers read when guys tow-in at Peahi. And they sure look like they are going two to three times faster than you appear to be going in your videos. In fact, we can estimate from the planing height of your boards your wave speed…and it is not twice as fast as anyone else on comparable waves.
So for now, I choose to believe that the speed measurements you report are not credible.
Quote:
Soulstice, Makes sense. So if that’s the way Tom is doing it…
The GPS device triangulates off any four of 12 available satelites in each hemisphere. It tells its own position to within 10 feet, plus or minus. So Tom has to have the GPS with him on the board, he needs two locations on the fly, and a stopwatch to record the time needed to travel between the two points. Since there is a slight lag time for the location to register on the device, and there is a slop factor of 10 feet in all directions, how can the calculation be accurate?
Tom, I am respectfully fascinated by the actual details of how this works. I must be missing something. Can you fill in the blanks?
Thanks, Doug
The raw speeds reported by a GPS are not measured by using the equation:
V = Distance/(Elapsed Time)
Instead they are measured (in 3D) from the Doppler shifts in the frequencies of the transmissions from the satellites to the GPS unit that are due to the relative motion between (the suitably positioned) satellites and the surfer/surfboard. This procedure is MUCH more accurate than measuring sequential positions in time (which, as Soulstice pointed out, even with WAAS have errors on the order of +/- 3m for the units we’re talking about). In contrast, the GPS manufacturers claim that speeds obtained from the Doppler shift measurements are accurate to about 0.1 mph.
This is truely remarkable when one considers how slow a surfer is moving relative to the earth compared with the rate of separation between the relative positions of the GPS and the satellites. But in fact, frequencies can be measured so accurately that the signals transmitted between a GPS and earth are deliberately shifted off their “design” frequency in order to make up for the change in the frequency as the electromagnetic waves travel (“fall”) through the earth’s gravitational field (per Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity).
As far as speed through the water vs speed over the bottom…
It is the speed over the bottom that is most relevant in being able to make it thorugh the section of a wave; it is the speed through the water that is most relevant to the hydrodynamics of the surfboard and fin system (and probably the perception of speed by the rider).
mtb
Quote:
……
Modern surfing is not a " LINEAR ( straight line) speed" - focused sport,(Like swimming ), unless youre on a mal andf surf like an old man. Read an article “The men who go straight.”
BUT (since the 70’s) we have needed to “cut-back” to catch up to the the wave, so the board is now faster than the wave.
So whats the big hype about speed, and in what direction and for what duration ?
I thought it was about manouverability…Or is Slater wasting his time…
S.
Some old men on mals?
http://www.surfline.com/video/video_player/video_player_640.cfm?id=5863&mv=NCL
(short promo at the beginning)