Hydroflex SuperCharger Technology

General Discussion
21

Monocoque effect? But I don’t quite buy into the this ensuring the same defection on both sides. There are several reasons for this, Bert Burgers morph theory, Bert/Greg Loehr bottom trampoline theory and because of the compund curves load may be distributed in a non uniform way. Not claiming that my model is accurate, but more a proof of concept. But consider the extreme case of a hollow board with a standard laminate, is it unlikely that the thickness will change when flexing? As foams get lighter, it’s approaching the extreme case. Whether or not this plays a significant role for the flex of a board is a different question which I think can only be solved by trials and/or a computer simulation. However there seems to be consensus in the compsand crew that a lightweight core (1 lbs. EPS) is what is needed to get the much sought after magic flex

I agree, the EPS does not compress in a constant way, it’s more like an exponential spring? However, the 9 psi EPS rating is at 10% deformation which is quite substantial, however unless we know the pressure on the core from a flexing skin it really means nothing.

True, but the concept remains the same, the thickness would still change.

22

Guys,

I have been talking to the guys at Hydroflex and they will be developing some data ASAP. What is being overlooked is the bonding technology.

You have to consider that this is not a typical lamination. The structure is what enables Hydroflex to add pressure and manipulate the ride.

Will one of you try to install a valve and add some pressure to your surfboards. Most of you know that the board will delam and not be ridable. 

I will keep you updated. 

Clark

 

23

Hey Clark.

I understand the structural concept of the 3D binder material, as my friends and I  have been experimenting with fabrics that act similar, but no doubt, are less radical in structure…

It is nearly impossible to get the glass laminate or high density foam that is bonded to the eps core to de-laminate due to the vertically embedded fibers in the binder layer… I have done numerous test panels, my friends have it in boards, I’m just starting to use it on my latest builds…

I’ve read elswhere here on Sway’s ; something about test panels being a waste of time, Ha!

Anyway ; what does happen  ;  Is the eps beads shear away from the core at a deeper level, just below and out of reach of the binder “fingers” (so to speak), when you try to delaminate the panels…

This is not a problem on a board that is not subject to repeated internal pressure changes, as it significantly increases the skin to core bond which is all you can ask for…

I can’t help thinking that repeated pressurization of these boards will cause eps bead failure below the boundry layer of the 3D binder mateial…

With the binder fabric I use now, I’m pretty confident the skin will stay attached to the eps on the board  if under no pressure…

But if I were to repeatedly  “pump them up”, I feel they’d fail where mentioned above…      Time will tell,   I’m sure Bufo has done quite a bit of testing, ,so perhaps I’m way off  ?

Cool concept, and like someone else said above,   It’s nice to see someone trying radically new things,    l dig it!!

24

As with anything new, there are bound to be doubter/haters. 

I for one have always been impressed (FAR more impressed than by the flattening of a board against the ground with one's foot) by the demonstration of the Bufo Bounce. 

Do I get a free board now?  LOL

25

 

How it might read: 

“developing our first flexible stringerless surfboard in 1998. In 2003 we overcame delamination by anchoring the fiberglass in the foam core. We recycled the first surfboard in 2008. Over the years we came to realize that there is no perfect flex for every surfer and every condition. So we made it adjustable.”

26

Clark !

Can the Americans order these boards custom made? 

Wouter

27

Wouter,

The factory is up and running. Bufo and the guy at Global Glassing are taking orders. They have access to the most advanced CNC unit in the country and are offering Hyfdroflex to anyone wanting to make this technology available. If you have access to stringer-less EPS blanks and want to have it bagged, bring it down.

Hydroflex is a product shapers can offer to their clients. It is an alternative to Polyester and Epoxy and offers all designers access to the most advanced composite technology.

The goal of the company is to manufacture the most advanced surfboards from the shapers that want to offer ultimate in performance to their clients.

To answer your question, “Yes” Americans can order these boards custom made and they are as we speak. The factory in the first month has fabricated about 100 boards and is already expanding due to overwhelming acceptance from the international shaping community.

I was lucky to be able to try a new prototype on Saturday. It was constructed from a new epoxy compound that is brand new to the surf world. Wow is all I can say. It is so exciting to be able to play with guys that have the knowledge and will to create ground breaking Tech. and can confidently pull into dredging shore break tubes.

 

Got to get to work,

Clark

 

28

This is a Sean Mattison model that is being tested:  The guy in the picture is "Bufo".

29

This is a board shaped by charger Jeff Clark. It has been ridden in thirty foot surf and went well. He clams he got in some good turns with it. (i dont know what that means. i think headhigh is firing)

30

Oooooohhhh, another seven axis machine like CI have? Or the very same machine?

31

Haavard,

It could be the same; I don’t know what CI is currently running.

 In the next few years 5 and 7 axis tools will start showing up in the surf industry. Right now there is limited access to this level of precision. The cost is out of this world. Is the consumer willing to pay for perfection?

 Haavard are you familiar with some of the programs Siemens is offering?

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/nx/design/ 

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/nx/machining/machining/5_axis_machining.shtml

I am just getting familiar with these tools.

Have a great day, 

Clark

 

 

32

Funny how you claim that you/they have the most advanced machine and you don’t know what the other are using? If it’s simens it’s not the same, check out the CI machine here http://www.surfline.com/surflinetv/no-category/how-it-works-the-shaping-machine_22015.

Even though the geek in me love the tech, why do you need a 5 or 7 axis machine for simple shape like a surfboard? For a motorblock, yes, sufboard, no. Unless you are doing a bunch of channels and mostly fishtails. Other than that, the only thing I can think of using it for is cutting the holes for fin systems and plugs, which would require using under glass plugs.

How does the extra axis give you extra presision?

33

Serious question, what happens when you pressurize it to a specific turgidity, and then you place the board in cold water?  What if you want your board pressurized to the maximum rating for maximum rigidity, but the water temp is 20, 30, 40 degrees colder than the air?  

 

In the summer months, we can see air temps near or in excess of 100 deg F but due to upwelling water temps hovering around 50.  Of course this is an extreme scenario, but a real one nonetheless.  I suppose one can more realisticly experience differences of 50 deg F if adjusting the board at home (say 70-80 deg F air) in the winter (water temps in the 30-35 degree range).

 

Do you guys provide guidelines with the boards for such conditions?

34

This is a great question. Yes in a situation where a temperature changes you will see/feel differences in internal pressure. There is talk of adding a gauge to the board. This would enable you to monitor changes while you surf.

 I don’t think this is necessary, having ridden prototypes for six months you notice when your boards need to be pumped. It’s more about maintaining a feel and as simple as using you hand pump on the beach to adjust it.

Have you ever surfed in the rain or at the mouth of a freshwater river? There are times that the board floats and feel completely different than the day before. We make changes to how we surf to adjust to the situations.  If your wax is slippery you rub some on.  Using air pressure is that basic.

When your board needs adjusting you just pump it or let air out. I don’t think a chart is needed. You quickly find what works better for you.

 

35

Haavard,

It isn’t important what CI is doing, they produce a great product!

The ability to have access to a 5-7 axis machine enables shapers to get exact copies of their magic boards. A 7 Axis machine can cut and sand a board to protection every time. When a board is hand shaped and hand finished there are variables in design and construction. This type of machine delivers a precession shape before glassing and after glassing. 

I think this standard will become more common as the technology develops. Why wouldn’t shapers want their boards replicated perfectly for their clients? If I had the money there would be a few 7 axis machine placed around the country. They would get used.

I trip when guys get so upset when a conversation is being had. Surfing is all about having fun. Design and manufacturing should be the same.

Clark

36

Love the stuff you guys are doing and the direction it's taking. Obviously you aren't going to fill us in on any proprietory info and fair enough, neither would I.

 

This sort of company promotion is really more suited to the industry section.

37

[quote=“$1”]

The ability to have access to a 5-7 axis machine enables shapers to get exact copies of their magic boards. A 7 Axis machine can cut and sand a board to protection every time. When a board is hand shaped and hand finished there are variables in design and construction. This type of machine delivers a precession shape before glassing and after glassing. 

I think this standard will become more common as the technology develops. Why wouldn’t shapers want their boards replicated perfectly for their clients? If I had the money there would be a few 7 axis machine placed around the country. They would get used.

[/quote]

A machine doing the sanding, that I really want to see (I don't doubt it's possible, just want to see it :-) ). I have my doubts it will be used for production though, even with much simpler machines it's possible to get ready (or almost ready) to glass finish of the machine, however it's more cost effective to do a couple of minutes finish sanding by hand. I doubt this will change unless the machine with cut more board an hour to a sanded finish to offset the higher cost of the machine. Manufacturers claim that accuracy after handsanding is excellent, they should know when they have the capability to scan the finished board and compare it to the original.

[quote]

I trip when guys get so upset when a conversation is being had. Surfing is all about having fun. Design and manufacturing should be the same.

[/quote]

Welcome to swaylocks! Get used to bold claims(“hype”) being met with a healthy dose of sceptism.

I took the time to read the German Bufo website, it think someone should fire whoever did the translation.

Could you shed some light on the foam being used? From the recycle video it looks like it’s not a bead type foam (EPS, which is stated on the website), it looks more like XPS(Dow blue foam type) however it might be the bead fusion(and color…) that make it look similar.

 

38

Haavard,

Bufo uses both EPS and XPS. The original boards are XPS, this makes up the bulk of boards you see on the market in Europe. The new boards are open cell EPS.

All the board made in Germany is 90% machine made. The only things done by hand are the lamination and the plugging once the board is sanded. It is cut and finished by a machine. I do not think I can get you pic or video of this. The technology that Hydoflex has available to is not exclusive to them. Permission from some big manufactures would be needed.

I agree with you that a 5 axis machine is all you need but if I could drive a Bugatti I would.

 

Have a great one,

Clark

 

39

Rooting the glass into the foam. (3-dimensional glassing) I believe that would make the board heavy and stiff. Although I have not picked up one of these boards. Just a thought.

40

the deck foam is corrugated…at least in the pictures I’ve seen.

there could be roving in there, I guess, but I just assumed that it was bagged and small resin beads were embedded in to the deck and chemically bonded to the laminate.

in fact, I think this is what inspired me to rake the deck of my XPS board with a wax comb when I had to relam the deck.