Hi Blane -
I doubt if anybody respects what you’re doing or appreciates what you share with many of us more than I do. I’m sure you have put a lot of thought in to your own business decisions. I don’t ever recall you having any negative stuff to say about people or their business decisions. I doubt if anybody would find fault with your decision to outsource or machine shape, except maybe DP a few years back.
IMO, the insulting remarks made by others should in no way be your cross to bear.
the thing is: Dave Parmenter has positioned himself not just as a renowned shaper but a literary figure in the mold of Steinbeck, Hemingway et al. His Clint Eastwood style persona and public utterances about hand-shaping vs machine shaping have been uncompromising and didactic : his themes which he continually returns to are social justice, purity, honour and the soul of the human being versus that of the machine. People have listened to him and even if they didn’t agree with him have respected him for his intelligence and the integrity of his position. This is not just written in a private E-mail but published numerous times in surfing mags.
This turn-around is galling and disappointing because it makes a mockery of all that he has said and written previously. In the words of Clint Eastwood his body of work now has the stature of a piece of dog shit dried up on the pavement, ready to be blown away by the next wind. If Dave Parmenter was half the man that he makes out to be he would come on this forum or some other public place and eat some humble pie, explain and apologise to those who he so self-righteously condemmed and get on with making boards.
We all understand the commercial and practical realities here and that is not the issue. The issue is integrity and honour : the cornerstones of Dave Parmenters public writings. Steve
Yes, he’s a hypocrite, but lets have some compassion. Dave is an idealist, and sometimes in the real world, you have to compromise your ideals. And who can say that they have never changed their mind. As we mature through life we should be able to change our mind. If you state your opinion when you are in your twenties, should you be required to keep that opinion until the day you die?
The joke is really on all the Dave followers. Why did this guy get so much respect in the first place. All I ever saw was a guy with an opinion that stated it with great conviction. Everyone does that. Does he deserve any more respect than anyone else with an opinion? Those of you that related to what he said should make those ideals your own and stand strong, with or without Dave.
Bow to no man.
IMO,
never mind
I think another aspect, a reality, is that the glass shops can not handle the demand. They can't do them all.
More likely they don’t really like working on them. Those thing are big. They take up alot of space. In my case I can barely get around those things in my spray booth when painting 'em.
It was a private e-mail…
I’m good friend with the recipient of the original e-mail, and we talked at length about Dave’s change last week when I was down there (in Cal)…
My friend’s take on it was this: for the kind of boards (SUP) that are being made, it makes sense to build them that way…Who among us would want to mow out gigantic blanks day after day…???..Use the right tool for the job…Welcome to the future, or go back to non-close-tolerance blanks and get creative…Anyone here ever done that…???..
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This would have been a good one to have pulled the plug on.
Ohhhh for the good ol’ days, when blanks were shaped, and not just skinned. Great for creativity, not so good for high production. Anyone got a clue which is best for the sport of surfing?
well-said, BT! Seems obvious.
But you know how much of an echo you get if you say people should be shaping some of their own surfboards?
So I almost ever post here because I jenerally don’t think I have nearly the experience to open my mouth about design and shaping matters. I’ve read the posts over the last couple of years about the pop-outs made in China, and thought it was time to say something.
As far as I’m concerned, if you want to mass produce a board for the people who either lack the experience or time to get a hand shaped board go right ahead. There will always be a market for something cheaper or easier to get.
The thing that seems to get lost in all this talk; and that I find to be virtually unknown by many average people I talk to,
is that China has a communist-totalitarian regime that runs the country. The people working in those factories make almost no money (sometimes none), and they are worked hard for sometimes double the hours the average american puts in in a days work. In china, people get sent to prison for speaking out against the government.
Things there are just the same as they were in communist Russia, except that that has been downplayed for years because they wanted to work with American business to import strong currency through manufacturing.
Do any of you who think using Chinese labor remember Tienenman Square? College students were fired upon by the military because they had decided to gather peacefully to demonstrate to the government that they wanted reform.
So go ahead and make pop-outs to your hearts content. Just make sure that the people building them get a fair wage and decent working conditions.
If Bic’s are made in France and you want to sell inexpensive mass produced boards then please sell the hell out of them. At least they are made in a place where people get paid a decent wage in a democratic society where they have guaranteed rights like we have here in the US.
resinhead got it right. i kind of like seeing all the corky core serftec riders doing the bunny hops in our line up here… it makes me feel that much better when i slide along a good one hanging a clean ten on my hand made volan monster . or on the big days when they complain about the wind pushing them off the backs. as for Dave… a freind asked a great local shaper to make me a SUP and he said “i hate shaping boards that big…do ya think you get it somewhere else?” Keep it smooth…if your board will let you.
So I almost ever post here because I jenerally don’t think I have nearly the experience to open my mouth about design and shaping matters. I’ve read the posts over the last couple of years about the pop-outs made in China, and thought it was time to say something.
As far as I’m concerned, if you want to mass produce a board for the people who either lack the experience or time to get a hand shaped board go right ahead. There will always be a market for something cheaper or easier to get.
The thing that seems to get lost in all this talk; and that I find to be virtually unknown by many average people I talk to,
is that China has a communist-totalitarian regime that runs the country. The people working in those factories make almost no money (sometimes none), and they are worked hard for sometimes double the hours the average american puts in in a days work. In china, people get sent to prison for speaking out against the government.
Things there are just the same as they were in communist Russia, except that that has been downplayed for years because they wanted to work with American business to import strong currency through manufacturing.
Do any of you who think using Chinese labor remember Tienenman Square? College students were fired upon by the military because they had decided to gather peacefully to demonstrate to the government that they wanted reform.
So go ahead and make pop-outs to your hearts content. Just make sure that the people building them get a fair wage and decent working conditions.
If Bic’s are made in France and you want to sell inexpensive mass produced boards then please sell the hell out of them. At least they are made in a place where people get paid a decent wage in a democratic society where they have guaranteed rights like we have here in the US.
Here ya go landlocked. It may get the dead horse award.
“College students were fired upon by the military because they had decided to gather peacefully to demonstrate to the government that they wanted reform.”
I’m not defending the Chinese government or outsourcing here. Just be careful what you say. The above quote sounds kind of like the good old USofA. Ever hear of Kent State? It wasn’t that long ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
I ‘hear’ you landlocked. This has been debated before on Sways. Hard to tell what exactly the truth is in the factory where the ST’s are built. Some have claimed the workers do pretty well financially and work in a safe environment by Chineese standards. Who knows for sure. It’s hard not to buy things from China in the USA. I don’t check the tag on everything I buy and discover later it was made in China. Maybe we should buy things from China. The more exposure to relatively free societies and markets the Chineese encounter may encourage a more open society. Look what they have done since getting Hong Kong back. Their economy has exploded. Tough call to make. I don’t like Communism, either. Mike
And, welcome aboard landlocked. Don’t be shy about chipping in, either. Funny, I was reading landlocked post and thinking how long before Solo jumps in on this. He beat my response. Damn your quick, Solo! Mike
[Tuna] Nothing from France is OK, not French toast, not French Country Decor, not your BIC, not even their women.
Standard French Army Rations
Over 400,000 Americans died fighting in WW2, in large part fighting to free France from German occupation…in one of the most cowardly acts in history, France surrendered to Adolf Hitler and the German government without even so much as a single gunshot. To make matters worse, the French government rounded up all their Jewish citizens and handed them over to Germany.
-French men and women only bathe on a weekly basis, smoke like a chimneys, and they are arrogant beyond belief.
Just last night, while down at dog beach in Del Mar, I realized that I hate French Poodles more than any other dog.
I somehow missed this post untill tonight. Being french (and thus unfamiliar with american humor) I first wondered whether this was intended to be funny or not… I strongly suspect it was not, though… I’m not going to argue with you but I doubt if this is the right place to express opinions that smell a lot like racism.
And, welcome aboard landlocked. Don’t be shy about chipping in, either. Funny, I was reading landlocked post and thinking how long before Solo jumps in on this. He beat my response. Damn your quick, Solo! Mike
Hi Mike,
Anything I have ever written on the subject is to cause thought and nothing more. People have the right to their own decisions. Thats why we have a free society. We can keep it more free if we could find a way to rid ourselves of a few zealots though.
I suspect the working Joes of Asia have as much trouble with their governments as we do ours…but…they have to live there in the circumstances they were born into. I personally just hate that our big industries are only there for the cheap human labor and not anything thought up and produced by the country itself. We can’t own slaves here or employ underaged kids, so we go to the next most acceptable thing for our cheap labor. Countries with so many people desperate for work at any price. Who knows…maybe $250 a month buys the same 1500 sq foot 3 bed room house as $3000 a month buys in America?
I somehow missed this post untill tonight. Being french (and thus unfamiliar with american humor) I first wondered whether this was intended to be funny or not… I strongly suspect it was not, though… I’m not going to argue with you but I doubt if this is the right place to express opinions that smell a lot like racism.
yes, balsa…i simply ignored that post, uncertain whether it was a failed attempt at humor, or a successful attempt at the poster making himself look like a prick. i would suggest you ignore it as well. some things (and people) simply aren’t worth the attention. veuillez ne pas nous juger par nos plus mauvais spécimens. <–(probably screwed that up, but i gave it my best shot)
Yeah Balsa…don’t worry about it. Sways is nationality blind and color blind. I was even born on July 14th.
dp = hypocrisy, deceit, lie, cheat, greed, exploit, arrogance. it’s the american way.
you are forgiven.
now you have to live with yourself.
in the end it’s only you.
oh yeah, but I still need to fill the demand.
Look, its simple…
the guy fought the good fight…as long as he could (someone had to, dont you think?)
but HE LOST.
Reality hits hard and in order to survive, you adjust.
Times are tough everywhere…its especially hard for old school surfboard makers.
Kudos for trying.