I would love a PM from all the sando guys

General Discussion
1

I’m not sure how to attack this one…

We can’t afford to make these boards without selling some to finance our hobbies, at least I’m certain most of us can’t.

The balsa sandos take a long time to make, are rare works of art when finished, and should be priced accordingly.

At the same time I feel a certain amount of guilt in profiting handsomely on a board that wouldn’t have been made at all if not for the knowledge I have gained from sways.

Even so, I think I have been selling the sandos I have sold so far for much less than I should have.

To add yet another twist, I think it is tacky as hell to have a public discussion about what our boards go for.

So, the question to all the other sando shapers here (and I invite you to reply to me via PM if you, like me, feel uncomfortable doing this all out in public), is simply how much do you get for one of your boards?

Upon selling the board that is prompting this question, I plan to donate a nice bit of it to sways. I really should have been doing that all along. I challenge all others who owe their board-building proficiency to this forum to do the same. Maybe all together we can help it go back to being managed without the need for google ads.

2

J

this is just my viewpoint and don’t take it personally as I know what I’m goona say may p*ss alot of folks here off…

but.

$150-$200 (you cand get a brand new ZeSurf chinese epoxy for $350 here)

I’m not in this to make money

and the boards I make were initially supposed to be for me and not for others

This is a hobby and possibly too much of a distraction from my real bill paying occupation.

If someone wants a board I prefer to direct them to one of many experienced craftspersons(men and women) who’ve spent their lives learning and perfecting their trade. Why would I want to take business away from them just because I know something they don’t especially since this is not my regular job. With all the talent out there to choose from who am I to think I can build something of the same caliber and lineage than can be acquired from a Brewer, Iggy, Barnfield, Nichols, Griffin, Arakawa, Aipa, etc etc the list goes on and on there’s hundreds of really good options to choose from. And they have bills to pay and mouths to feed as well. And in most cases they owe me money in one way or another anyway taxes, fees, loans, etc.

Your stuff is good, but every board you sell is one less for guys like Jim Phillips and all the rest of the industry sages. So it’s a tough call. Somehow we’ve all developed Manolo Mandala dream fever working our way up the same ladder so to speak.

As far as time.

If that was a consideration I’d have my company invoice Sways to recover for the lost productivity it’s caused their company over the past year because of this distraction they’ve caused. All the reason my imminent retirement is imperative to both my and their continued success…

Unfortunately I can afford to do this without compensation as the relative costs are no more than golfing with the big wigs every weekend or going out to the theater, symphony or opera and a good dinner like my peers. So my perspective is a bit skewed to the wrong side I guess.

From what I can tell the market starts around a grand and works up to about $2500. The ultra wall hanger stuff is going from about $5000 up to $25,000 depending on the complexity and materials used in the inlay work. You need to develop the client base first and then price accordingly cause here’s the story…

The funny part about your question, is that when I’m in negotiations with a large business entity(even things as big as a state or county government), they balk at paying me system start up costs of $2500 or $3500 for something that will either make or save them that tenfold over the course of a year. So I’m constantly shaking my head walking out of these meetings and thinking that the same idiot wouldn’t have any qualms to pay that and more for a Christiansen/Brewer longboard from surf garage but not even consider it for something that will save or improve his business to feed his pocketbook…

Just my take…

It’s a good and timely question.

By the Way

I saw your beautiful board for sale on the darkside.

I’d consider buying it for my collection

But could never bring myself to pay as much if not more than I could get a custom board here from Brewer, Aipa etc etc…

think about that one

3

Good points, for sure. Definitely some angles there I hadn’t considered.

“Mandala dream fever”

I’m LMAO at that!

Also, I think I probably over-generalized when I said, " We can’t afford to make these boards without selling some". Shoulda said, “I, and I suspect many others, can’t…”.

4

$150-$200 in an insult…

5

Oneula.

That was one of the best posts I’ve read in several years.

Drew

6

$150-$200 in an insult…

call me crazy but oneula’s “bruddah bro” charge is completely irrelevent to the original question…that’s basically giving it away. and he did state that they were originally for him in the first place.

im willing to bet that oneula is just making space in an already crowded work space…maybe its his garage sale price…just to cover the cost of materials

SO…im obviously out of the loop…

but what the heck is “Mandala Fever” anyway?

(i know about his boards but nothing more than that)

7

Schwuz

When I started out making compsand boards, I had no intention of selling them, I was so excited by the whole Sandwich construction thread, all I wanted was to build boards for myself, but as mates saw my boards they asked how much? well I see it as a way of expanding my experience and allowing me to refine my designs and manufacturing process.

I was a bit doubtful at first, but Bert did say if any crew want to run with it then its ok by him. When asked about the boards, I always mention Bert and Swaylocks.

Oneula looks at this from the angle of someone who obviously makes a very good living from other fields.

I have a workshop that needs to be paid for, when I am quiet on boat work, I make some boards and sell them, I am not strictly backyard because I pay insurance and comply with health and safety law etc

I don’t advertise or hype up my product, If people like the look of my boards, then I will make them one end of story.

I Hadn’t thought to donate money to Swaylocks, and perhaps I should, If it would get rid of the ads them I will.

My boards sell for £550- £600 with a set of Rainbow fins.

A lot of money yes, but a lot of work goes into them.

Probably when/ if Bert’s boards are freely available in the UK people won’t want my boards, but as long as I get asked to build boards I will when I can.

I hope no one here has a problem with that, as i am truly grateful for all the help I have recieved at the mighty Sway’s.

8

Power on, Marky. I don’t see any problem with that. Market-driven economies are just that.

Sways does take PayPal, btw… :slight_smile:

9

Well I guess I should clarify my response a little more…

Here’s what CMP’s says you should charge.

He’s been at it longer than anyone else here on Oahu and helped myself and JJP and Shwuz get started in this whole stuff.

I say if you think you more experienced and a better sando maker than him then go ahead and charge more…

Date Posted: 08/17/2005

6’2 6’2 SGH, c price Tow board

Length: 6’2

Width: 16’’ 1/2

Thickness: 2’’

Price: 475.00

COMMENTS

used, wood laminated, epoxy tow in board. The best of everything, NSI adjustable footstraps, red-x fins with 80/20 foiled fiberglass fins, regular foot set up. 14 lbs. Rides super smooth, tracks well, proven performance in 30+ foot faces.

7’9 SGH, c price

Length: 7’9

Width: 21’’ 1/2

Thickness: 3’’

Price: $475.00

COMMENTS

new, wood laminated epoxy surfboard, red-x fin boxes, tail block, high performance for small to large surf. leash and fins included

Date Posted: 08/17/2005

7’1 SGH, c price

Length: 7’1

Width: 21’’

Thickness: 2’’ 1/2

Price: 450.00

COMMENTS

New,wood laminated on foam all epoxy board. wood tail block, thruster set up with red-x boxes strong, light, flexible and beautiful. with fins and leash

Date Posted: 10/31/2005

7’7 SGH, cp

Length: 7’7

Width: 20

Thickness: 2 3/4

Price: $450

COMMENTS

new, epoxy composite mixed foam D-cell/EPS core with balsa lam. Red-X thuster set up. includes new leash and fins.

Date Posted: 10/31/2005

8’1 SGH, cp

Length: 8’1

Width: 20.5

Thickness: 2 7/8

Price: $550

COMMENTS

new, epoxy composite balsa lam on mixed foam corcell/pu core. nose and tail block, red-x boxes. includes new leash and fins.

Date Posted: 10/15/2005

9’1" SGH, cp

Length: 9’1"

Width: 20"

Thickness: 2 3/4"

Price: 575.00

COMMENTS

NEW, never waxed, never in the water. SGH epoxy mixed wood laminated surfboard. light, strong, beautiful and proven gun shape. Red-x boxes, with new fin and quality leash.

Date Posted: 08/17/2005

9’4 SGH, c price

Length: 9’4

Width: 22’’

Thickness: 3’’

Price: $700.00

COMMENTS

new, wood laminated on foam epoxy longboard. nose block, tail block, 2+1 fins set up with red-x side boxes, box center.

support the Governor in the water with this high performance surfboard.

If you guys think your stuff and business is worth more than what CMP brought to the table to get it all of us started then go ahead and charge what ever you want.

here’s another unknown designer’ s posting:

New single fin woody with high polish finish. Easy to paddle. Glides easily through the water and turns on a dime. $750

9’6" x 22 3/4" x 3 1/4"

Now here’s some other rel old guy’s stuff…

Again if you think you are an up and coming hot boardbuilder and have achieved the same level of expertise as these old cranky and getting senile guys then go ahead and charge the same as they are asking for their stuff it’s up to you.

In fact alot of this stuff is that junky chambered solid balsa stuff way more low tech and easier to make then our styrofoam “magic” boards (not).

I bet there’s alot of guys that would think twice though if they had to make a choice between choosing these old fart’s handiwork or some new hotshot kid on the block…

HAROLD “IGGY” IGE STAND-UP RACE BOARD - $2200

15’ Carbon Fiber / Styrofoam open ocean race board

One of a kind!

$2200

Balsa “Pro Mini-Gun”

Sale Price: $3460.00

Balsa boards ride and perform differently. The buoyancy of the wood and the chambered construction, combined with the added weight, make it track and slot differently than a foam board. Constructed from a Bones Balsa Blank built in Haleiwa Hawaii, this PRO MINI-GUN is made to ride. Own a balsa board that is made for something other than hanging. Collect them or ride them.

Dick Brewer Balsa wood hand shaped 7’6 tow board - $1600

Model: n/a

Length: 9’ 10

Width: 22 1/2

Thickness: 3 3/8

Price: $5,000*

*Hand shaped by Dick Brewer and glassed by Jack Reeves; a golden combination.

Balsa Bing “Pipeliner” Island Gun

1965 Replica

Sale Price: $3890.00

This limited edition PIPELINER is a replica of the board that Dick Brewer created for Bing Surfboards and ridden by Buzzy Trent, Fred Van Dyke, and many other surfers to ride the “Heavies” on the north shore in 1966. This was the most advanced big wave board of its time. Only 100 of these boards will be built. (Both foam and balsawood construction combined.) At this writing 94 more are available for sale. This board is made with what PLUMERIA feels is the best balsa blank on the market created by Bones Balsa Blanks in Haleiwa Hawaii. One of the construction elements is a chambering process that lightens the board. Absolutely no corners are cut in the construction of this board. A collectors dream…Ride it…Hang it… Enjoy it!

Balsa “Dick Brewer Model” Gun

1965 Replica

Sale Price: $3890.00

Dick designed this board for Hobie in 1964 for the north shore Waimea Bay surfers. It was acclaimed as the best big wave board of its time. Now available to you in Balsa construction, chambered for lightness and created from a blank provided by Bones Balsa Blanks in Haleiwa, Hawaii. Absolutely no corners are cut in construction of this board. Dick really outdid himself on this one!

North Shore Woodie “Dick Brewer Model”

Sale Price: $2550.00

Elegance and Innovation

Veneered with imported Obeche and C.Rosa wood and constructed as one would build an airplane wing this new era board is as beautiful to look at as it is to ride. Each North Shore Woodie is unique and handcrafted from the world’s lightest and most beautiful timber. This board has a unique construction where it is built like an airplane wing - over ribs with a beautiful wood veneer. Wooden surfboards bend less and chatter less providing exciting down-the-line speed with a more dynamic and smoother ride. The North Shore Woodie “Dick Brewer Model” performs well in three-foot East Coast slop, four to six-foot California beach break, or seven-foot plus waves on the North Shore of Hawaii. Available in a single-fin or thruster model.

Steve Dunham Balsa Gun 8’, 1972

Beautiful example of Brewer influenced chambered balsa gun. Dunhill was one of RB’s main shapers and this features a classic example of a Brewer design. Flawless logo and it is in mint condition.

Estimate $2,500 - $5,000

Talk about time and effort…

No way what any of us are doing could’ve compared to the effort it took Brewer to build out this crazy thing and yet look at the price…

Dick Brewer Surfboards Solid Wood Multi-Laminations 9’6"

This is a custom art board shaped by Dick Brewer and made of 420 laminated pieces of wood! Three stringer glue up, with custom wood fin. Like no other Brewer ever made! A true work of art.

Estimate: $5000-$8000

So just think about it that’s all.

Just charge what you think it’s worth but also remember how you’ll look to the rest of the world as they look around and compare you to the other choices.

And this isn’t the “I don’t know any better that looks neat” crowd.

But guys you’re gonna compete with and gonna take business away from.

10

Hey Oneula, I get where you’re at, but what that’s really showing me is CMP’s shorting himself $300-400 per board. Anyone who competes on price doesn’t believe in their product - and I have a hard time with that, seeing CMP’s work. If he’s just semi-pro, bro-dealing to cover costs and not trying to support himself on boards, I get the prices, but otherwise, I think he ought to take a higher opinion of his work. Not a shot at all, but I see CMP charging so little being more insulting to hardworking guys than Shuwz charging more.

11

Most of those boards have all sold already and he like me was just clearing out the backroom.

But alot of times it’s all about how big your ego is versus what you really need to get to keep going that’s all…

Like my brother told me if I charged my hourly wage for the time spent on these things, no one I know or surf with would be able to afford them. And I’d be laughed out of the line up. (oops this just cost sways another $50, whom should I send the bill?) Definitely not my particular way of thinking…

If this was my business then I’d price it that way cause that’s my bread and butter. The backside to that is did the customer actually get something worth what they paid relatively and if should the guy who snapped that board on his first go out expect a complete refund for something priced 2-3 times market value. When you buy such expensive things they usually come with lifetime or 100,000 mile guarrantees.

12

I’ve been wondering the same thing. My boards are starting to pile up and I’m not somebody who like the redundance of a large quiver, but I like building boads and my wife would enjoy if I stopped bleeding cash. I might of finally gotten to the level where selling them might be an option.

13

maybe it is just a price difference between hawaii and the mainland but I agree with Benny1. CMP should double his prices. Custom sandwich boards should sell for more than an off the rack PU/PE board. Looks like his boards are cheaper than the boards on the racks in Ventura.

I’m a rookie, but already have people asking me to build boards for them. With the amount of time involved in making a custome sandwich (at least for those not set up for production) I would either build a board at cost or if I was selling it it would be more than $500 for sure.

14

okay i charge my labour as a master jeweller 45 p/h nz and i add thirty percent onto my materials to cover overheads.(im talking 10,000 dollar pieces )that is a wholsale price.

the average 18ct hand made solataire ring ends up being around 400nz wholsale

usually the retailer provides the stone and gets the margin on the stone.

he will double the cost of the ring to the public plus sales tax which is 12%

so my labour gets charged out at 90$nz

i guss in the scale of things although the us dollar has more value i imagine that things prolly cost more in relative.

now i charge my apprentice out at 20 dollars an hour and she is reasonably competent.

so that is 40 bucks retail

now i call myself a apprentice board maker with sways being my teacher.

so it would be reasonable to charge out at 40 and hour retail

and double my material cost

so if i can make a compsand in say 16 hours thats 640 labour

my materials are 200 so double that is 400

so thats 1040 plus tax

now, say i streamlined production and could make a board as FAST as the PROS.

and could pop one out in in a few hours less i really should only charge for the 14hours labour

so that drops the board down to 960 plus tax

now a stock shortboard cost btween 600 and 800 bucks in nz

thats cnc shaped with alight as glass job

i can reasonably imagine my board would last 3 time longer

so for an extra 200 you get a lighter stronger board that lasts 3 times longer

1000 bucks is a fair and reasonable price and basically not a very profitable business.

so guys. charge what you can get

get funky chicken with the art and charge two grand

if bert goes big time and his are selling cheaper

well that ill be it really wont it.

at the moment though there is list as long as your arm for a wait.

so fill the gap in the market…

15

This is what many in the industry have been fearing for some time…

THE BOTTOM LINE.

Focus for a minute on any realistic calculation of material and labor costs (at anything approaching “normal” wage) and you begin to see the conundrum…

i.e. why Surftech and Boardworks represent such a formidable obstacle to any domestic operation trying gain (or keep) anything but a losing share in the marketplace.

16
Quote:

I’m a rookie, but already have people asking me to build boards for them. With the amount of time involved in making a custome sandwich (at least for those not set up for production) I would either build a board at cost or if I was selling it it would be more than $500 for sure.

This is kind of my point (and what I call M-fever MeeC)

guys come here and pick up pointers start experimenting and start making something pretty neat. All of a sudden they become pros pimping their stuff or meeting the demand as stated above. Alot of us are in this position, me included although my stuff’s crap it just looks neat…

So where did all you folks pick up this stuff anyway?

And from whom?

Did you just figure it out all by your self like alot of the other guys here we’ve spooned off of?

Obviously you weren’t doing it before if you had to ask someone here?

So why is it that we have to suddenly be the next local Bert Messiah to fill a gap?

When some one asks you this exact question 4est stated above, why aren’t you responding by saying sure but you know what, I can show you how to make one your self it’s easy I learned it and so can you if you give me some time…

versus

Sure how much do you want to pay me for one?

What has more impact in changing what we’ve all been griping about here for eons.

Giving the man his fish or teaching him how to fish.

It’s jesus’s story all over again 2000+ years later

The enlightened ones becoming their own prophet versus showing the un-enlightened the pathway to freedom.

Or maybe all this prophetilizing(sp) about the state of thing was just because the money wasn’t going into your pocket and into someone elses… Money always f’s everything up…It does…

Personally I don’t think we need more new sways wonderboys taking on more orders than can be delivered unable to say no because of ego and ending up at the bad end of someone’s conversation many moons later.

I rather take the second course of action because that’s how I was taught and treated by my teacher.

And in the end, I believe the results for everyone will be much better. People will not only understand that you can easily create something better but at the same time it’ll give people respect for what’s involved in the process so that when they do deal with the regular industry folk they’ll know how to properly compensate them for their effort and also what’s reasonable to expect from them. Kind of like bussing or waiting tables for awhile, it teaches you what it’s like on the other end of the experience.

I don’t know I’m probably just a one man psycho in a straight jacket talking to the wall here but that’s what I’m seeing here lately and my dissappointed opinion about it.

Again like Hiro I am nothing…

Al I can do is do what I can…

17

ahh i see…

its a sign of the times bro…

the info-supa-highway has changed everything…

old brick’n’morter rules no longer apply.

here’s a fresh new topic:

how many of you would be making boards, profit or non, if the net didnt exist?

i’d be a hard long slog if it wasnt there, wouldnt it?

info is everything

18

Shwuz, mine start at 90000yen which is about 800dollars.

BUT I’m in Japan. If you walk in a surfshop and check the price tab on them custom made pu/pe’s

they start at about 1200$.

Why I started selling em is easy. I am 31 now and never really had a real job, but knew I love surfing and started dreaming about moving to the coastline and become a shaper.

had shaped two boards and then I came to swaylocks, and since then everything has happened soo fast.

Thats it, it’s so simple for me.

I always tell my customers about Bert and swaylocks.

I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing if it wasn’t for swaylocks, THANKS TO EVERYBODY AT SWAYLOCKS!!!

I always think about donating to swaylocks, but there’s not much money left after I’ve payed all the bills…

It’s just started, maybe I’ll be out of buisiness next year,hope not.

Jimmy yoshio shibata.



19

oneula, good points. I guess my point, although not well stated, was if your not willing to give your boards away you should be selling them for a fair price (i.e. pro prices). if your boards are not of quality to get a fair price you should not be selling them. dumping yunk cheap just hurts the industry pros by driving the price down.

As for the show others how, many are not willing to try, but yes if I was making a board for someone I would ask them to come help/watch so they can understand the process.

20

so true mee

but let’s say we take this knowledge and show my chinese/taiwanese/thai cousins how to save money and do the same with $15.00 lowes roofing sheet foam they can probably buy for $8 in bulk from insulfoam with wood rails and all. Certain types of really good wood’s probably cheaper there anyway (Pawlonia, Bamboo).

For a bunch of guys willing to settle for $100 a month I wonder what that’s gonna do for the local market of these things…

They won’t look so special anymore. Imagine how many boards could be done if you paid these guys $5.00 a board. Exactly what John’s talking about. The pies getting smaller not bigger. it’s kind of late to be jumping in. Soon the pros will learn and put out stuff we can only dream of using this simple technology cause least we forget, its what goes into the design and shape not the tech that will make the difference. And 10,000 under my belt board guys will figure it out fast especially since these won’t be plug boards like surftech…

Believe me it coming, someone here’s already seen it…

$150 wholesale mass produced brand new balsa or bamboo skinned sandos right of Vietnam/Taiwan with the classic Bert tail, longboard square nose and all.

If the market wants it they will deliver it.

I’m sure someones trying to line up an underground deal for Bert’s tech just like anything else they can get their hands on…

The net is a better equalizer for the third world than it is for the rest of us…