surfing has a lot of illusssionsss…what we think works we find out doesnt and vice versa…when we have them or are using a design say channell bottom ,v, reverse v,fish, we are sure these are the best then 4 years later they are gone… the illusion was there …now mccoy has always stayed true to a design that works…and has never gone off on a tangent for 4 years he is over 30 years with one design constantly refining it.not waiting for the next illusion to jump on and swing the whole of surfing down dead ends…who holds the reigns…the elders do…loving my surfing and the history along with the great waves…aloha cheyne

You’re either Horan or Solosurfer, I can’t tell.

So what if surfers go on a tangent and persue interests in opposing directions of board design theory. It’s all fun, it all works in some way or another.

So you are saying we should all follow a conservative ONE path? Sounds pretty boring to me.

I’m with Lee Double D on this one, we can’t all follow one shaper, thank God. Much of life is an illusion and we all should start using ours as vibrantly and creative as possible. The greatest attraction to surfing for me personally is the change in equipment , anticipation of rides, varied waves, people and places. Experiment beyond the trends and you will have more stoke than you can handle.

Peace from the East

no not conservative. its ok to go in any direction push all the limits further then you can imagine , Im saying that when a new idea comes the whole of surfing are told “this is it” it is all to sell more boards and its the opposite…thin boards for example the shapers world wide say yeah This is it cause they will sell more boards some of them make them for you before they even try them because they are the fashion then the surfer comes along and buys a peice of sh#t and then gives up because he couldnt ride it…well may be thats a good thing…yeah…yeah… great if the next new design that comes along the best co.s call it the sh%t…this will keep the crowds down…Im all for creative not at the expense of the sh1t already worked out …and putting surfers on bummers…

i never offer a customer anything i havent fully researched ,both by myself and my team guys…one the rare occasion it leaves you behind ,but 95% of the time it keeps you from churning out the latest crapy trend that doesnt work ,ends up keeping your reputation in place ,rather than being branded a clone shaper…

your always looking for improvements ,sometimes its a step forwards ,great find new direction from there…

other times its a step sideways or back …just go back to where you were before the last bad step…

if you build boards for money your doing it for the wrong reasons…

to clarify that a bit more ,if you build boards with no other intent than to make a large profit …

theres guys making money but there heart is still in the right place as well…these are the guys who wont be seen producing the latest trends just for the sake of sales…




I don’t feel that Cheyne was advocating using only one shaper. I think he was stating a fact that Mccoy like many other shapers out there has found a design he feel works and finds no need to change his design on the whim of the latest fad. Mccoy has proven his designs work and he has never been one to follow a fad. Mccoy is not alone, there are others. There are those shapers who feel they are producing what the public wants and thats fine, but when it comes to selling a modern shortboard to your average begining surfer or for that matter most surfers, you are selling them something that is going to hinder not help their surfing. It does not take a genius to figure out, that if it does not float you properly it will not surf you properly.

The point is, the business side of the surfboard industry is an illusion. You have to be blind to think otherwise. You really would have to believe that Lost surfboards are state of the art and Quicksilver $50.00 boardshorts really are better than the Mosimos you buy for $19.00 at Target. P.T. Barnum’s ghost is alive and well and haunting the surf industry. There is a sucker born every minute.

On trying every new fad that comes out or experimenting in general. 90% of the people who experiment with boards all the time don’t really have a clue why they like what they like or why they don’t. I don’t have a problem with experimenting with shapers or surfboards, it’s a free country. I will stick with time proven designs and shapers that make common sense surfboards. As for me being real partial to Mccoys. I have a few other shapers whose boards I like as well. I just think Geoff has got a magic touch. I also like Greg Pautsh, Chris Burch, Jeff Bushman, and Steve Forstall among others. Jim Philips, Terry Martin, the list could go on.

As for Cheyne, if this is Cheyne Horan posting: I will let his surfing and years and years of experience speak for themselves.

That is not Cheyne Horan; Cheyne is not so wordy in his responses. There are known past Geoff McCoy “haters” here. Search the archives.

The real McCoy?

The real Roxane…?


I agree thats probably not Cheyne. You are correct about it being way too wordy. That is more my style not Cheyne’s. Also I have never heard Cheyne get into surfboard debates. Most of the time when he speaks of other shapers he on the positive side.

I still agree with most of the post.

yeah you are on the right track…with your research and its comforting to hear…sure we have to advance…intelligently…so hopefully more people can come to enjoy surfing…I have my experiment board along with lots of boards that work, you are in retail and if you have knowledge you can easily put people with limited ability on the right board …someone who rips are usually looking for a deal instead of good boards…NOT EVERYONE…but a lot of them…Ive paid for most my boards but deal with the beginners every day teaching surfing…seems weird Teaching as it seems like surfing is so wild you just charge it and dont get taught anything but as teacher or elder I pass on the techniques we have been using and the history which is very important to me personally along with etiquette and so on

thats right some guys do have a clue …and your illusions had me in stitchesLOL…so true…my illusions have taught me not to jump in no matter what the hype…Look from a safe distance if you have 2…do u work for mossimo?you should cause thats the best advertisng line Ive heard…Im still laughing

NO I don’t work for Mossimo. I pretty much dislike 90% of name brand surf cloths equally.

i believe that thin boards are direct decendants of the reshaped boards that worked so well in the hands of the enthused kids that it drove the demand for such craft…its easy to go smaller so easy that coming back to high volume surfcraft is likely to be incomprehensible,how can you ride this… that… thing? KAPLOOSH the intoxicating control of board so llimited in mass is a drug best consumed by unlimited unbridled energy of youth…HYPE? another story…products marketing , quality in constuction and materials not mainstreamed and mass marketed have to be expensive…the Couture surf shorts handmade in the 60’s by those places in beach towns world wide are mostly extinct …or… evolved and replaced by conglomerate "surfwear " entrepenuerz buying up beach real estate to create… drug… free … old surfers homes that our aging bodies can shuttle to and from If of course these global conglomerates have their hearts in the right place…ambrose…Take’s, Miura store in haleiwa,that place in topanga,Sally Yater,Katin ,Birdwell,…dream of making your Own shorts and then do it $18.00 is less than free…in 1966 dollars thats $1.80…hang tens on sale were $9.00 thats $90.00 in 2004 money … chinese slave labor makes target wear and dont forget it

Amen; love my Miura shorts. Got matching pair with son. Incentive to never grow a belly.

Would actually love to surf in them sometime. Cold water=no crowds=no shorts.

How many young surfer’s are there that we’re born in the 80’s named Cheyne?

While we’re on illusions: there’s a neat optical illusion done at Cal Tech

Get close; look at the red dots in the center; now look at the edge. Move back and do the same thing.


According to Wu, the lead author of the paper, the design of the experiment exploits the fact that different parts of the brain are responsible for processing different visual features, such as motion and color. Further, the experiment shows that the brain can be tricked into binding the information back together incorrectly.

"This illusion confirms the existence of the binding problem the brain faces in integrating basic visual features of objects, " says Wu. “Here, the information is reintegrated incorrectly because the information in the center, where our vision is strongest, vetoes contradicting (but correct) information in the periphery.”

Bottom line; things you are closest to may be incorrect. Take a step back for perspective.

Last week I was driving down PCH and saw the old Katin store in Surfside. I quickly pulled over and got myself a classic pair of hand madeKatin trunks. Cost me $40. If they hold up like the originals, I’m probably set for life. Can anyone say VALUE. Nancy is somewhere smiling.

yeah I made some shorts Miuras too…taking one step back to look is fantastic anology…haleiwa still has soul…the shave ice, plate lunch…plate lunch always reminds me of M.Ho he loved em, we would surf and go grind in haleiwa…to greg…good to see you here…your still ripping with knowledge and advancements in technology…what glass is the best now? grenough is still charging2 ,I visited him before I went to Jaws and he helped with my new foil which friend Rich put together in carbon and its the Bomb…in giant surf

hey cheyne , we got some nut cracking waves over here as well , rich sent me a photo of you on a bomb at jaws , looks like your arteries are well and truly clear after all that blood and adrenalin pumping through your veins…ive got an uncle in dee why who lives for those days , true big wave hell man ,his name is booma…the guy was forcing me out at 15 ft margrets when i was 12 , true fear that was,im actually grateful for it now tho…

i bumped into mitch a few weeks back , i remember seeing some epic home movie of you and him at strickos and cobblestones , like 20 years ago or more when i was a grom working with cl at t&c ,i think it was mick button who took it ? cant remember…can you remember those sessions…?



yeah I remember those sessions stand up tubes for hours…etched in the memory…yeah margrets put the wind up me too the first time i surfed there…with ian pt…sharky and power…good you took the first steps at 12…to riding big waves…adreanalin junkies we are…looking at a storm now of fchile christmas island must be 30-40ft today…

actually those steps were taken for me , i think if i wasnt pushed ,i would have no natural inclination to have tackled waves like that back then…i never even caught a wave , felt sick to the core with fear…probably took another 5 years to get aclimatised to waves like that,ive always called myself an adrenalin junkie but these days im not so sure…

i have a serious question for you…

a few years back i got the thrashing of my life at big gnarloo on that double step section,i think it rattled me , i ended up selling my 9’ 9" and making 10’ surf my limit,and while i do miss the rush ,that one wipeout haunts me ,even tho ive had plenty of near death ones before it ,usually in deeper water …

what is it that drives you to surf such extremes ,is it just the adrenalin or something else as well?

can i get back what i lost?

maybe it was never there and im using it as an excuse?

whats your thoughts ?



cant pinpoint what drives me…having the knowledge and ability to ride big waves …love to push all edges…train for it…confidence in my boards and ability …still with this Ive been to far…nearly died 4 times doing it…can u get your edge back yes if u want it enough…eat right train…you can also have let it go for to long…if so …know your limits especially if you have a loving family

hm…thinking time…