Green??? I don’t think so. Maybe you “cut your hand”??(
Just want to point out that the video says green is Innegra, but the comments in the post say white is innegra. Which is which? Green was stronger so I assume that’s the innegra? Why is it green?
Unless pigmented Innegra is white.
Hard to tell his intent and which is which.
Let’s see if I can clarify my comment without getting downgraded for it.
I was referring to the 2oz Innegra S. I have no experience with the vector net versions or the hybrid fiberglass/innegra versions but I could imagine those would be more effective in getting the ligher weight than an all-innegra weave.
The reason I say the glass jobs that incorporate straight innegra-S will turn out heavy is not because the fabric itself is heavy but because most people will sandwich it between 2 layers of fiberglass. I don’t think it has good adhesion at all when compared to fiberglass so I wouldn’t back it up directly against the core nor will I glass it in a layer by itself.
If I’m doing a design that benefits from having some weight (like a singlefin longboard or certain types of fishies) then I think it’s a great choice, 'cause those glass jobs are really rugged. Way more so that straight fiberglass of the same weight, IMO. I quite like the industrial look. I could also see using it on the rails of a compsand or other techno construction 'cause a little extra heft out at the rails can be fun.
But if you’re looking for the 4lb HPSB then I wouldn’t use the 2oz Innegra S for that.
YMMV
Yep McDing i think it’s green with tint lam. I think that because hammer don’t penetrate as easily as in white. Hope i will keep my hand LOL. For river kayak guys use plastic fiber like innegra or diolen or kevlar inside to avoid full cut of skin after big rock impact so boat don’t feel of water too quickly, sometimes they had a layer outside too for better abrasion resistance, they keep glass and carbon for structural strengh. I make parts for racing cars, we use diolen as inside layer of carbon body parts to keep bigger piece after impact
oops, sorry about that. I tinted Innegra with green. wanted to see how it took tint.
yep, I put green tint in the Innegra. sorry for the confusion.
I also did redneck adhesion test on EPS. tearing Innegra from EPS pulled more beads and made bigger mess than tearing S2 from EPS Both 4oz
All of these fabrics have beneficial properties and purpose. On a surfboard sometimes though the use of a certain fabric is more cosmetic than anything… The Innegra on the board I pictured was a mistake . The glasser substituted the Diamond Innegra for 227 Aramid Vector Net that I had supplied.
Just so you know for reference…
Innegra is a trade name for the aramid fibre.
Kevlar is another trade name for an aramid.
The Wikipedia page on basalt fibre has the ballpark specs to compare E, s-glass, carbon fibre, aramid and of course basalt.
Aramid varies. Innegra is a more reliable quality as aramids vary in properties depending on who and how it’s made.
The young modulus for aramids is a bit stretchy, yeah. It also needs a coating to bind with the epoxy and this is what Innegra gives you. The strength to weight ratio is between carbon fibre and s-glass.
Kayak builds found that oblique impact vunerability in kevlar.
Kevlar is slippery in general and fray resistant. Yes, stronger than E-Glass by 3x approx. The strength to weight ratio is the main point.
Hope this helps
Innegra I see is a polyolefin. Are all ‘‘Aramides’’ polyolefins? Is Aramide a made up trade name, and Polyolefins a specific chemical name?
Is it safe to think of Innegra as stronger per weight than S glass and more flexible than Carbon Fiber?
Can I oversimplify and think of it like slightly more flexible carbon fiber?
PS- any info Aeroquartz? sorry to thread jack.
I think you are mistaken. I was just on the phone yesterday with Chris Russel; who in the middle of LA traffic gave me a brief explanation . I believe he told me that Innegra is not an Aramid. That Kevlar is a registered trade name for DuPont . And Technora is as “knock-off” Aramid with slightly differant properties and make up made in Japan. Innegra is not an Aramid. I believe he sad it was some type of Poly. As I said I hope he jumps in here and educates all of us. Being unfamiliar with the technical side of these products; It is hard for me to remember all that he threw out in our brief conversation. Wikipedia is written mostly by folks like you and me. Not Experts. Wiki has been knownto be wrong. Lowel
Vector Net which is an Aramid is.incorrectly called Carbon. Technora and Kevlar are Aramids. Both are black whereas Innegra is white. Pretty sure that’s the jyst of what I was told.
Innegra is not an Aramid, nor is it a Carbon. Technora and Kevlar are trade names for Aramids produced by two differant companies. Aramids are not Carbon.
Innegra is polypropylene light and stretchy. There are many kind of plastic fiber, and variation of characteristics in same familly. Most are not specific fibers for composite, more high tech syntetic textiles with composites déclinaison. An other familly with good properties are polyéthylène high tenacity, dynema or technora, if you deal with poor adhésion. Vectran can be good too.
It’s not that important to me. I’m sure you guys will figure it out. Good on ya mates! Lowel
That style, XPI 233, is Innegra.
Innegra will never clear out and will always stay opaque white. If tinted, it will pick up the tint color and have a slightly lighter looking finished color than fiberglass tinted with the same resin. Innegra is available in white and black, although 98% of Innegra used or available for surfboard composite construction will be white as far as I have seen to date. They are working on other colors for the future.
http://www.innegratech.com/fibers
XPT 226 and XPT 227, the "traditional Vector Net"and is black, is Technora. Technora is a Para-Aramid Fiber and is yellow but also died black which is what we use in the main Vector net styles. Most companies mis label this material as Carbon.
Technora is very similar to Kevlar, which is a Aramid.
http://www.teijinaramid.com/aramids/technora/
http://www.doylesails.com/design/fiber.html
Innegra, Technora and Carbon are all very different although Innega and technora share a few properties in terms of Energy dampening. Both are good for impact resistance. Each different types of fibers are not replacements by them selves to Fiberglass or Carbon. The materials are best used in combination with each other.
So a 2oz all Innegra plain weave is great for toughening up the impact resistance of a board. But it should be combined (capped) with a Fiberglass or Carbon or both) to really make the part superior to one without. Thats the beauty of where we are going with materials and boards. The mainstream days of thinking where “advance” was combining a layer of 4oz with a layer of 6oz are coming to an end. Combining different types of fabrics like Innegra and Glass or Technora and glass yield much better results when the combination is right.
Innegra, Technora and Kevlar sand like $h!t. They fluff up and become a hairy mess. That is another reason to always have them under layers of glass. Part of their ability to absorb energy in impacts or dampen energy is how they interact with Resins. Resins tend to encapsulate these fibers whereas with Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber, resins penetrate to the core. The Encapsulated individual fibers (Innegra, Technora , Kevlar) essentially are dry fibers surrounded with resin. The Dry fibers dampen energy as it passes through them. The dampening affect is also what helps them absorb and disperse impacts. Fiberglass and Carbon, having Resin to the fiber core , are therefor more brittle when it comes to impacts.
Also a note on Vector Net Styles to identify the material used. All Vector Net starts with “XP” which stands for “Cross Ply”. Any letter after that identifies the material. So XPI stands for “Cross Ply Innegra”. XPT stands for “Cross Ply Technora”. XPC stands for “Cross Ply Carbon”. XPIC stands for “Cross Ply Innegra Carbon”. etc…
By posting as a reply, GM_CR buried some good information. I have posted his response as a quote so it does not get lost.
GM_CR wrote:
That style, XPI 233, is Innegra.
Innegra will never clear out and will always stay opaque white. If tinted, it will pick up the tint color and have a slightly lighter looking finished color than fiberglass tinted with the same resin. Innegra is available in white and black, although 98% of Innegra used or available for surfboard composite construction will be white as far as I have seen to date. They are working on other colors for the future.
http://www.innegratech.com/fibers
XPT 226 and XPT 227, the "traditional Vector Net"and is black, is Technora. Technora is a Para-Aramid Fiber and is yellow but also died black which is what we use in the main Vector net styles. Most companies mis label this material as Carbon.
Technora is very similar to Kevlar, which is a Aramid.
http://www.teijinaramid.com/aramids/technora/
http://www.doylesails.com/design/fiber.html
Innegra, Technora and Carbon are all very different although Innega and technora share a few properties in terms of Energy dampening. Both are good for impact resistance. Each different types of fibers are not replacements by them selves to Fiberglass or Carbon. The materials are best used in combination with each other.
So a 2oz all Innegra plain weave is great for toughening up the impact resistance of a board. But it should be combined (capped) with a Fiberglass or Carbon or both) to really make the part superior to one without. Thats the beauty of where we are going with materials and boards. The mainstream days of thinking where “advance” was combining a layer of 4oz with a layer of 6oz are coming to an end. Combining different types of fabrics like Innegra and Glass or Technora and glass yield much better results when the combination is right.
Innegra, Technora and Kevlar sand like $h!t. They fluff up and become a hairy mess. That is another reason to always have them under layers of glass. Part of their ability to absorb energy in impacts or dampen energy is how they interact with Resins. Resins tend to encapsulate these fibers whereas with Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber, resins penetrate to the core. The Encapsulated individual fibers (Innegra, Technora , Kevlar) essentially are dry fibers surrounded with resin. The Dry fibers dampen energy as it passes through them. The dampening affect is also what helps them absorb and disperse impacts. Fiberglass and Carbon, having Resin to the fiber core , are therefor more brittle when it comes to impacts.
Also a note on Vector Net Styles to identify the material used. All Vector Net starts with “XP” which stands for “Cross Ply”. Any letter after that identifies the material. So XPI stands for “Cross Ply Innegra”. XPT stands for “Cross Ply Technora”. XPC stands for “Cross Ply Carbon”. XPIC stands for “Cross Ply Innegra Carbon”. etc…
Maybe I can help you guys understand these fibers a little better. As lemat says (he gives out way too much info here lol), Innegra is a trade name for a polypropylene fabric. We tested the stuff about nine years ago, before it even had a trade name.
There are other polypropylene products, and they are somewhat similar to aramids (a classification term, not a trade name, Kevlar is the most well-known aramid) in that when laid into a FRP (fiber reinforced plastic) laminate both aramids and polypropylene exhibit a ductile mode of failure. That is, they bend before they break, much like a metal.
The bad thing about polypropylene is that nothing sticks to it, it’s almost like a release agent in itself. So if your plastic (epoxy hopefully, using better fibers with polyester resin is kinda pointless) isn’t sticking to your fiber your composite isn’t going to perform very well.
The guy who came up with Innegra developed a proprietary process to make each individual fiber smaller in diameter. The smaller the fiber, the more surface area for the resin to (almost) bond to. This somewhat mitigates the poor bond qualities of the polypro.
Thanks for bringing Chris’ post up front. Didn’t even realize he had replied. I think that pretty much clears up any confusion. Lowel