Is a Home Depot foam blank too corky?

Longtime lurker, first time poster - I plan to make a board from Sheltersheath insulation foam and Epoxy resin - Since this type of eps foam is low density will it be too corky once it is completed? I plan to glass 3x6oz top and 2x6oz bottom as per the suggestion of other site members - I will also add a stringer - Is there anything thing else I can do to add weight or am is it just not necessary? - I’d like a heavier board

Sub question - with 3x6oz deck, will it still be overly seceptible to dips and dents? I’ve heard of wood verneer but that seems out of my realm at this point

Thanks in advance

To specificly answer your question… the archives, I think, suggest decreasing the thickness by 1/8" to make an EPS ‘float’ like a PuPe. Haven’t used 3x6/2x6 but on my 1 lbs EPS, balsa composites, using 2x 4oz., I have very slight depresions where I knee paddle. That’s after 6 mo. of surfing 3x per week.

Then when you’ve finished this one try using the new materials (EPS, epoxy) with the new techniques. I think you’ll be VERY happy with the end results. Have you ever tried a lighter board? Not sure weather your short/long board but my latest 10’er is 14 lbs and an 8’er is only 10 lbs.

If your near Monterey call me and you can try any of the 8 or so composite boards I have at the time (6’3" fish to 11’6" paddle/surf board)

Les

Foam is not corky by itself. If you had a 6 inch thick clark blank it would be corky and if you had a 1 inch thick 1 lb eps it would be sinky (is that a real word :slight_smile: ). You need to make sure your shape fits your foam.

where are you located?

if better foam is available…get it.

I’m in NY and the minimum I’d be paying for a pu blank is $80 - This is the foam that was available and my other alternative was pink xps - I guess what I’m asking is should my finished product be thinner than my pu/pe template? Or is there anything I could do to keep the same dimensions and add a little weight, ie thicker stringer, thicker spackle coat, heavier glass/cloth, etc?

im making a 3" thick fish with 1lb eps and i’m just going to glass it really really heavy and its going to be a small wave board no need to duck dive

but i might go thinner i have yet to even cut the shape, im out of town

More wood is the cheapest and perhaps easiest way to add weight…oak is plentifull and makes good heavy tringers but just about any hardwood will do. Corkiness is governed by final board density(weight) and volume. Eliminating other variables (esp volume), the lighter the board, the more floaty and corky it behaves. Word of caution: some people still have trouble understanding buoyancy physics so this is a touchy subject round here.

EDIT: found this good online explination (wish I had found it a while ago)

Density

If the weight of an object is less than the weight of the fluid the object would displace if it were fully submerged, then the object has an average density less than the fluid and has a buoyancy greater than its weight. If the fluid has a surface, such as water in a lake or the sea, the object will float at a level so it displaces the same weight of fluid as the weight of the object. If the object is immersed in the fluid, such as a submerged submarine or a balloon in the air, it will tend to rise.

If the object has exactly the same density as the liquid, then its buoyancy equals its weight. It will tend neither to sink nor float.

An object with a higher average density than the fluid has less buoyancy than weight and it will sink.

A ship floats because although it is made of steel which is more dense than water, it encloses a volume of air and the resulting shape has an average density less than that of water.

Damnit craftee, you know I just can’t leave that alone.

Your board’s corkiness will primarily be determined by total volume and rail shape, not core material. With the exact same size and shape, if one board weighs 2 lbs less, then it will have only 2 lbs more buoyancy. With a surfer sitting on top of it (your board doesn’t surf alone, right) that is a negligible difference in buoyancy. Make sense?

Like craftee said, there are still many folks here who have trouble understanding bouyancy physics. (sorry craftee).

Here is a very succinct and entirely correct writeup on the subject. If you don’t get it the first time, read it through until you do. This is a subject worth having some authoritative information about.

Quote:
A true statement is: all dimensions being equal, a lighter surfboard is more buoyant (will float better).. Surftech (who makes a very good product, and has relatively truthful advertising otherwise) claims their boards are about 10% lighter, so they are 10% more buoyant (many board makers make more outrageous claims). If some engineer sued them in court, Surftech would probably assert, "it is 10% more buoyant, when no one is on it". I feel this is deceptive advertising. Please consider thinking about your surfboard and your body as one unit. A 150 lb. person on an 11 lb. board equals 161 lbs. A 150 lb. person on an 10 lb. board (10% decrease) equals 160 lbs. This is less than 1% difference in buoyancy in a real surfing situation (even though it may feel 10% lighter when surfing).

That is important to think about… When you are paddling your board or sitting on it or riding it, the board isn’t just floating its own weight, it is floating your weight as well. Since buoyancy is a product of the amount of water the board displaces, a 1 or 2 lb difference in board weight with a 180 lb surfer on it will be negligible. You’d see a greater difference by wearing a spring suit instead of a fullsuit.

If you want to make a board that’s not corky, then make the shape not corky. Another reason that surftechs were accused of corkiness was their stiffness. Flex is an important component in the classic poly board equation. Good luck recreating that though. :slight_smile:

With the exact same size and shape, if one board weighs 2 lbs less, then it will have only 2 lbs more buoyancy. With a surfer sitting on top of it (your board doesn’t surf alone, right) that is a negligible difference in buoyancy. Make sense?

Well now YOU know I cant leave that alone Schwuz!

The BUOYANCY force of a submersed steel sphere of volume X is IDENTICAL to the buoyancy force of a submersed air sphere of volume X in the same fluid medium. Read that again…the buoyancy force is IDENTICAL. But the steel ball sinks and the air ball floats way high. The diff is the weight/density.

You bring up a good point about the surfers weight. Comparing two identical design/volume boards, one is 5 pounds the other 7 pounds, each behave much differently DYNAMICALLY. Adn its the dynamics of the situation that makes for some confusion.

A simple Statics engineering free body diagram can explain, as you have, the board/surfer float relationship when both are completely still in calm water. I agree there…BUT

The ‘system’ in REAL use becomes much more complex because its much more dynamic. Its dymanic even when your sitting on your board in the surf zone. As the ocean bobs you and your board up and down, the lighter board and surfer bobs up higher and bobs down less lower. When you go to paddle from a sitting position, the board rises, and does it quicker with lower density equipment. When youre stroking for a wave in avg BBs, the tail has to rise up - this happens quicker with a lighter board. When your sloggin thru a real slow phat section, the lighter board rides higher on the water than the heavier one, offering a bit more speed. At mach speed, a heavier rail will hold better than a corky rail (btw I agree with you on rail volume). So IMO, on average, lighter boards are more responsive in terms of float.

Its DYNAMIC dude…and its very difficult to analyze and quantify mathematically cuz its very complex. I aced my statics class, but struggled badly in dynamics class…in fact it was the only class I had to repeat in Sr. college. Dynamics sucked the life out of my head…just look at me now, a lifeless internet forum junkie…so sad :wink:

Location: Corpus Christi, Texas (but I’m not a texan!)

Hey now, neither is the prez…what a strange coinkidink.

I agree that it is dynamic, but I think the big mistake that so many make in analyzing this particular problem is not looking at the board and rider as a unit. all of the examples of the 5 and 7 lb boards behaving differently you cited are correct, assuming that there isn’t a 150lb surfer sitting on top of them!

Take those two boards and strap a 150lb lead weight to them. Are they going to bob in the lineup noticeably differently? Well, maybe 1.5% worth, because that is the difference in buoyancy as a part of the total system.

When you go from sitting to paddling, the rate at which your board will float to the surface might be marginally quicker from the 2 lbs of extra buoyancy, but not much considering how buoyant any board is on its own. Every notice how much water a riderless board displaces by itself? not much at all. So, when you push it down with your weight, you are displacing much more than necessary to make it float, and taking that weight off it is going to make it pop to the surface like a cork. I’d guess that the shape of the board causing drag on the way to the surface would be a bigger factor in that process than an extra pound or two of core weight.

I disagree with the lighter board riding higher underway, again it is a difference of 2 lbs in a 155 lb system, and at that point it isn’t a displacement issue because the board is planing. Much more a matter of surface area and rocker/rails at that point.

On the heavier board holding in better, again, the weight applied to the wave at the rails is the weight of the board plus the weight of the rider. I just don’t believe that anyone is sensitive enough to notice a 1% difference in total system weight.

The only thing I can point to is the very noticeable difference in swing weight, inertia at the feet, that will come from a lighter board. In that context, 2 lbs is a HUGE amount, and will certainly affect the perceptions of the surfer riding the board. I might even venture to guess that many if not all of the “buoyancy” differences that surfers are reporting are actually mass/inertia differences that are simply being misinterpreted by good surfers who are feeling a major difference in their boards, but are not equipped with the theoretical background to accurately assess what is happening. I know when I’ve ridden an ultralight board after a heavy one, I feel some major changes in the way that my input is transferred to the wave. There is simply less INERTIA, less resistance to changes in velocity, and that is extremely noticeable in virtually all conditions. 2 lbs in motion at the end of 2.5 ft levers (your legs) translates into quite a bit of torque, torque required to change the velocity of the board, and torque created by the movement of the board. Even 1 lb is noticeable in that context, and likely to be remarked upon by even average surfers.

But just because they think it is a difference in “float” doesn’t make it so.

That’s my postulation on the big lighter-weight/corkiness debate. Makes a hell of a lot more sense to me, from a strictly physics-theory point of view.

Just caught the texas thing… Ha! yeah, I’m an alaskan, maybe that’s what I need to put on my sig.

Quote:

With a surfer sitting on top of it (your board doesn’t surf alone, right) that is a negligible difference in buoyancy. Make sense?

And that line of thinking is precisely where you go wrong!

The surfer is not static on his board. Lateral speed (cruising down the line) as well as vertical pressure (pumping down the line) are where a board’s corkiness really comes into play…and both have absolutely NOTHING to do with the surfer’s weight. It’s the variations in these factors – say, for example, when you’re walking the nose – that actually matter.

Consider two boards of identical shape – 1) a traditional log weighing in at 26 lbs., 2) surftech popout weighing in at 12 lbs.

Consider a surfer who has a perfectly smooth cross-step, gliding effortlessly to the nose. Then, contrast this with a less experienced surfer who more or less clod-hops his way to the tip. The difference is in the downward force created by the approach (which has NOTHING to do with the surfer’s weight – whether he’s 70 lbs. or 270 lbs., it’s sudden increases in downward force on the board that matter). When the corky popout is impacted with increased downward force, it sinks into the water and then wants to spring back. This is not good – it’s a surfboard, not a trampoline. When the heavier log is met with this downforce, the effect is dampened by the board’s weight and lateral motion, and the board will not spring back because isn’t all corky like the popout.

Also, consider the same two boards just cruising down the line. They hit a little chop on the face. The heavy board just drives right through it as though it weren’t even there. Corky popout, on the other hand, gets thrown for a loop.

In some aspects, the way a board surfs needs to be measured independently of the characteristics of the rider. The effects of a board’s corkiness has absolutely nothing to do with the weight of the rider, and the buoyancy effects of a 10 lb. difference in the weight of two boards will remain even if there is a much greater difference in the weight of the surfers. The rider’s weight doesn’t do a thing to mitigate this effect.

NOTE: This has already been discussed at great length in other threads (basically, every time someone makes the comment that the corkiness of one board over another makes no difference when a 200 lb. dude hops on and takes it for a spin).

Soulstice, that supports my inertia over buoyancy theory as creating “corkyness”.

I agree boards can feel corky, my issue is with people thinking that corkyness is from added buoyancy from a lighter core. Your statements seem to support my feelings that it has more to do with inertia.

Sorry I know this is a dead horse, I just hate seeing folks using physics wrongly to support an argument.

but you seem to be approaching theory as though surfer and board move perfectly in concert with one another…that simply isn’t the case. the effects of a corky board are felt by the board’s reaction to a surfer’s action. a surfer’s weight while riding is irrelevant to the determination of a board’s buoyancy.

Quote:

Also, consider the same two boards just cruising down the line. They hit a little chop on the face. The heavy board just drives right through it as though it weren’t even there. Corky popout, on the other hand, gets thrown for a loop.

Just picking a nit, but in this example, the total inertia of rider and board are nearly identical no matter which board is considered, and the rider remains closely coupled to the board in both cases. The real difference would seem to be in the distance between the center of mass and the axis (or axes) of motion.

-Samiam

if you are using HD foam because it’s cheap why should it matter how it performs?

you’ve already made a significant compromise by using something not designed for the purpose you are imposing on it.

Heavy glass schedule double 6B triple 6T or double 4B triple 4T

Glass-ons fins

Wood rails

would help tremendously making it seem more “normal”

When you get past the materials phase

like alot of us here already

you’ll realize that it’s really 90% shape/design and 10% materials

Focus on doing the best possible (and cleanest) shape you can muster as a beginner and you’ll come out a winner no matter what the core is.

If you want to add alot of weight slap on a couple of 1/8" luan door skins over the foam and she’ll pick up weight like you wouldn’t believe. You can get those at the same place you’re getting your foam. But then the cost went up to the same as a regular PU blank.

‘Unlurking’ just for a sec to add a quick comment- I just love these threads that start with a seemingly simple question and turn into something way more complicated!

As a lurker hoovering up as much info as possible before starting my first project board, my takeaway is ‘just build it and see’. All this nuance and ambiguity just gives me stoke for getting a board together and into the water.