If the market supports imported products, they will survive. Only time will tell. My only hope is that raw materials, blanks, resin, etc. will be readily available to local shapers and backyarders like most of us on swaylocks as it has been so far. I think there will always be someone curious and motivated enough to want to shape at least one board for themselves. Long live the backyarder…
There are many circles within circles in this industry and it does keep going around but unfortunatly it is starting to resemble the water spinning around my toilet bowl and heading in the same direction “down the drain” KR http://groups.msn.com/MyKRSurf/krcomweb.msnw
I think there are two threats or issues here. 3G surftech soloman, these are limiting the choice of surfers. There will always be a need for local surfers, they do our ding repair and our innovative work, but demand might drop. Bic produce solid, good quality boards at reasonable prices, and are made in Europe. They dont have the pretensions of 3g etc. I think they are a good starter board 2 It is a moral question, buying cheaper goods from the PRC threatens jobs, and supports a very nasty regieme as well as the occupation of Tibet and human rights violations. It cant always be avoided but I try not to buy goods produced in the PRC
I totally accept that it’s a free market and that most of our clothing and many other thngs are made in China and other countries where they don’t give a hoot about their people. On the other side of the coin are American workers who want more money and want to do less work and with less quality. Last time American car manifacterers had protection the product they put on the American public was so bad it allowed the Japanese competition right in our front door. They made them better and cheaper. Now many of the American Cars are back on top and the Japanese cars are the expensive ones. Buick replaced Toyota in some as one of the most trouble free cars in America. Amerian Board manifacterers need to put out better product and start telling new surfers what to ride instead of new surfers coming in an saying can you make me a board just like… Used to you would go to a shaper or surf shop and ask for something you saw in a magazine or heard from someone and they would challenge you as to why you wanted it and then try and sell you something they knew would work for you. When you rode it and it actually fit the bill your trust in the shaper or shop grew and your next board purchase was much easier. Now you go to the shop no one helps and you find the cheapest board that looks like something out of a magazine or something you heard. BAd thing is you have shapers who were once legends putting their name on some of this stuff and giving credibility to it and much less emphasis is placed on talking to the customer. Just show up and buy a copy popout or a copy from china and when you learn come back for a real board. Many of these people never learn because they did not get the right board or advice to begin with. Lets face it, some of this retro stuff was crap when we all used to ride it and that includes these old longboard shapes with famous names on them. There have been improvements in board design and you can get the look with modern bottoms and rails without having to give up ride quality. Why would you want to ride something identical to a board ridden in 1964 that is slower, does not paddle as good, and is not nearly as manuverable in the pocket. Thats what you have with many of the surftech products reshapes of old designs that were replaced for a reason. With the chinese boards you have very generic designs that many shops would never buy if not for the price. It is creating a generation of price shoppers instead of teaching the next generation what quality hand crafted surfboards really are and appreciation for those have put their lives into creating them. If not for these people who have given their lives to producing quality surfboards, there would not even be a surf industry for the likes of Quiksilver and Billabong etc. to suck off of. The shapers themselves are the only ones who can take back the industry from fashion gurus by standing together and calling shit on some of this stuff and by not putting thier names on the crap and giving it credibility. Rich Harbour pulled his name from surftech and their have been a few others. There needs to be a differnce in these products over hand shaped and the surfing public needs to know what that is before they make their next purchase.
still the expensive cars in the world (aston martin, rolls royce, lotus, etc)are the ones who´ve got handmade process.
To RSC, # 11 this is what I toss about with the older shaper/craftsmen and we are few and far between. The younger “shapers” can’t be bothered with learning how to go both ways with the planer,u8se a sander as their main shaping tool, can’t learn to clean up planshapes with the planer, they seem to have unlearned the bad habits from “shapers” that unlearned these bad habits from other unskilled persons who, blah blah blah. In time someone will have to relearn how to shape all over again, without the tutoring/mentoring from a truley gifted craftsman that has a half a century of the rights and wrongs under their belt. With the cost of living getting higher each day, not many will be able to give it a go for a life time, thusly the skill falls lower with each generation. Until you have shaped thousand and I mean thousand of boards, you might think you’re on fire, as Cleanlines can say about me when I was a young buck, but only with time and numbers does that skill level ever come and for some it never happens
Jim, Your one of the best and don’t let the Bubble headed Twappies get you (best phrase ever coined by you) Keep doing what you do.Your right on with your post.
R S C and Jim… I sadly agree. Over the past 10 years Ive personally experienced much the same process of disintegration in a trade which has a long history- going back for centuries. One in which Id invested over 30 years of my life. All sorts of unbelievably talented artisans from my generation (the last in this trade) are becoming obsolete, one by one. And there are very few with any professional substance coming up behind them. How could there be? There are no more apprenticeships, and the near-impossiblity of sustaining a full time living, especially with a family. Plus, the cost of specialized tools and supplies have been rapidly increasing, while at the same time their quality and availability have been fading… or permanently discontinued. Ive heard it said a million times, "Fine craftsmanship will always be appreciated, therell always be someone willing to pay for it". Well, that rings hollow to the highly skilled “starving artist” who doesnt have enough paying "someones" to operate a legitimate business. Getting a second (or third) job to augment the first only serves to complicate and frustrate the process. In my trade, unless I can function on a steady flow of high end work, my professional "edge" begins to dull, affecting the length of time it takes to estimate and complete a project. Correspondingly, Ive observed the erosion of the general publics perception of high level craftsmanship, dumbing down in direct proportion to the high volume/low end product flooding the market. After a while, Mr. Average Joe thinks cheap junk looks like pretty hot stuff. Right on the heels of that, Ive already seen the first wave of “well-meaning duffers”. Hobbists who know a little, but really can`t do… re-packaging and marketing a nostalgic, historic ideal of what was once a living, daily reality for many who have shared my profession. How true: (#16) “High end craftsmanship is reduced to an unattainable, nostalgic ideal.” On occasion, younger people come by my shop, fascinated by the same things that captivated me some 40 years ago, wanting to learn the trade. It grieves me to say so, but I respectfully advise them to consider becoming an journeyman electrician, plumber or carpenter…
dale, that was an interesting perspective. well said. what profession were you involved with? why does it grieve you to recommmend other professions plummbers, electricians, carpenters? those are good vocations. thanks.
Ref. the latest Surfers Journal: its rotten pits when a bloke has be a fireman just to give it a go as a fine board builder. Imagine how good someone like that would be if they were able to have at it as their daily bread. RSC/Dale S./Jim P.: Thats right. Some are staid and refuse to admit its falling down all around them. In the next 20 years aggressive stragglers who dont know a damn wit about shaping/glassing will begin laying claim to being the incarnation of blokes like Dick Brewer. From here on out: the best of the best custom board builders' last big hurrah. Honor and support them while theyre still among us.
The China debate is an interesting one as is the surfing industry…The surfing industry including the suppliers, shapers and dealers have created an business enviroment doomed for failure forcing shapers to go overseas, specifically to China to have their products made. Starting with the suppliers…as an example Clark foam will sell to anyone, unlike other industries material suppliers offer two price structures one for industry & one for the public allowing enough margin for the manufacturer to wholesale his finished product. Typically industry buyers have to meet large minimums which keeps the general public out…not so in surfing. You can order 1 blank or 50, you dont need credentials, a business license, etc. So the Al Merricks of the world goes to the same source for materials as the 20 year kid in his garage and gets the same prices. The shapers/dealers…every shaper and most surf shops have “team riders” basically kids that get baords at a discount…usually the best kids, the kids that will be consumers for life never pay full price for a truly custom board…so in a sense the industry trains the most loyal surfers to expect to pay below retail or even get free product. Finally the surfing consumer… does the surfing consumer really respect the work that goes into a board, the labor,the materials, the overhead the liability, the real costs of making a board…if so why do most consumers want “deals” or get shapes copied by garage shapers? Imagine any other industry that is almost completely hand done…how much would custom cabinets cost, or a custom motorcycle or a custom anything…It would be at a preimium, yet a custom surfboard isnt. The slacker, “surfer dude” mentality has created an industry that does not value its own product… SO finally now, some shapers are saying im intitled to make a living…and they go overseas to make a margin that is higher than 30%. I laugh sometimes at all the surfers who get custom boards as if their level of surfing warrents a custom board because thier skills exceed what a board on the rack can offer them. You would start to think everyone was on the world tour and +/- of an 1/8 inch would help them beat Kelly Slater. I understand the desire for custom, but respect the value of it and pay the premium, if not dont critisize the shapers trying to make a living for trying to increase their small profit margins. I doubt anyone in their given profession would turn down the oppurtunity to get a pay raise especially if their craft was under appreciated and undervalued.
Good post Derek H. The problem with our industry as a whole, is there is no respect given to those who made contributions. Instead it’s whatever the surf Clothing companies tell the magazines to write about certain surfers or craftmen. The public does not know about many of these legends or legendary craftsmen because some of them decided not to play the hype game and simply let their surfing or their work speak for itself. I looked on Quiksilver australias web sight the other day and they had a bio about MR now shaping for Qstix and how he learned to shape from JACK Mccoy and Dick Brewer. Of course when I E mailed them and told them that JACK Mccoy was a film maker and not a shaper and they probably meant GEOFF Mccoy, the changed it and E mailed me back and said some grommet made the mistake and good call. What are craftsment doing shaping boards under a clothing label anyway. I have done bios on people and one thing that you double and triple check is names and spelling of names. Was it a simple mistake? Mabybe. The fact is there are so many so called authorities on surfing today and many of them are written by Surf photographers or surf Jornalist who are really only giving their own opinions from the perspective of what magazines have said about shapers and surfers. Why don’t some of you shapers form a guild and start combating these people in the hype business instead of hoping they will include you in there next article or tickle your ego with a picture in the next issue of Longboarder or surfer. The shaping masters and are the ones that have given the surf industry it’s only real credibility. Look at how the clothing and accessorie companies throw their sponsored surfers aside without a shed tear of thank you check as soon as they are no longer in the public eye. You guys should start joining ranks when it comes to giving out information about surfboards, your voices carry alot of weight with surfers who ride your boards and many of those surfers voices carry alot of weight with groms and etc. I realize there are alot of egos on the line though.
Atom Tan: Back to what you said in a thread further up;about easy-to-shape blanks. Yeah, when I first got into glassing in the late eighties I remember occassionly someone would bring a homemade shape by for glassing. This was before Rusty’s “R” suffixed blanks,like 6’3R,6’8R,etc. The blanks were THICK, bulky, and somewhere in them was a nice-looking surfboard. The problem then was you actually had to do some carving to find it,and really use a planer. Nowadays, the kids really have it made; some of the guys will bring in their first ever board,telling me “I did’nt really like the planer, it was scary,I just started using a sander or sureform to do it.” And some of them don’t look too bad! I mean they’ve got problems, but they’ll ride fine probably. The stuff guys brought in back in the day with the old blanks was horrible by comparison, and usually didn’t ride, and then they ordered a board. I’m not ragging on anyone, I just was remembering how much harder it was years ago to shape a good board…got to get to church now…
B, You got right to the crux of the issue here and thats that shapers have been their own worst enemy. None of these so called Rippers deserve free boards. What we have created and I am as guilty as the next guy is generations of whiners who feel they lose face if they don’t get discounted or free boards. I had one kid who was dumb enough to tell me, " man you should take better care of me, I support your shop." What do you mean better care. Boards for $100.00 and clothing 40% off. Thats their idea of support they are doing you a favor by gracing your shop with their apperance or your boards with their feet. It’s an ego trip for these shop owners and board buildrs to have the local ripper on his boards or with one of your stickers on it, but in reality they rarely pay for themselves. Really no one tells the kids there is any difference in surfboards, certainly not the magazines who only want money if the masters of this industry are unwilling to fight for their rightful place in the indusrty and sell out for a buck from China who else is going to. I heard from one very famous shaper who was asked to recreate one of his boards for Quiksilver so they could include it in their version of surfboard evolution. He told them to go get stuffed. More power to more like him. If the industry is about nothing but money and making a higher profit at any cost, then sending American jobs to China is fine and so is exaggerating your status as a shaper or surfer. It’s all about promotion after all.
Atom,I dont think people are selling out by going to China here is why… First of all it is not a fair to critisize any industry for wanting the highest profit margin it can get…sounds like you have a shop, Im sure given the choice between selling product with a 30% mark up vs. one with a 100% mark up you would pick the higher of the two, especially if the consumer’s first reason for purchasing something is value. There is nothing wrong with being a good business person and making as much profit as you can thats your job…why else would you be in business. Almost everything else in a surfshop other than boards are made overseas, wetsuits, board shorts, t-shirts etc. its only a matter of time before everything is made overseas…why, Americans dont fight for American made products, their too price driven.Why else do we have superstores; Walmart, Kmart and Cosco. Cosco & walmarts are biggest retailers in the country because the masses are driven by price not quality. I agree with most of what you said, however its important to note that making a profit is every Americans desire, its what Capitolism is about…and its good. If the consumer wants a good value over everything else than the smart business person will shift his business model to make a higher profit and in most cases it wont even compromise quality…and in many cases the quality is better Final point, making a profit is why were all in business, its something to aspire to, its not evil, immoral or unethical to make a fair living and to continue to profit at your craft. In fact its every good business persons goal to make as much profit as possible…its an ethical goal. That does not make you an Enron. If a shaper in the US cant even make a fair profit , usually less than 30% margin, and he is underappreciated for his work China seems like a really good business decision…and if a shaper has a family to support its an ethical decision too.
B, I don’t really disagree with you.Some of my previous post said much the same thing, but something that is handcrafted like a surfboard is different than a massed produced pair of surf trunks. The only thing America can do to combat losing it’s jobs overseas, is to lower pay, take out saftey laws, get rid of any environmental laws,and not care how our workers are treated. The companies that use this type of labor overseas would do just that if given the opportunity. I have no problem with profit and in some cases with going overseas, but the sales job being done in the magazines saying Surftechs are some new tech. and are superior or that boards from china are the same as those that come from Mccoy,Philips,Jones, etc. is simply not true. I am trying to convert my shop over to lower overhead and surfboard accessories. I cannot stand what the likes of Quisilver, Billibong, and the rest of the clothing whores have done to the industry. Those guys would sell their mother for a buck and same goes for the reps and the magazines.They try and create this surf look and surf lifestyle (which is centered mostly around punks and drugs.)so we only draw into our industry that type of person that the companies are selling at the moment. It’s not bittrness or even anger,but a simple obsevation about a sport I love. I respect what shapers have to go through because I have been part owner of a factory also. These guys work their tails off to produce products that drive the industry, yet they are the ones who see the least amount of profit.(I realize some of them have their own problems like we all do)Not only do the customers beat them up on price so do these giant surfshops who want to have the lowest price boards because they don’t know how to sell quality. The problem I have with them going to china and other places is the same type of people who run the clothing companies run those companies and will sell the shapers out as soon as they think the money is right and when that happens, what about getting custom shaped boards. What about surf shops. When the boards are only a commodity why not simply get them from Walmart. I cannot imagine a day when you go into a shop and buy your generic label surfboard and feel stoked about it. I feel the same about selling some kid a signiture model surfboard, when I know it’s not going to work for him. Why do you think surf is so hot and cold? Because exept for the shapers themselves very few others things are valid; only hype and hype never last.
Steve, My primary vocation for the past 30+ years has been in the sign arts. 100% custom one-offs: logos/graphics, brush hand-lettering, illustration, neon design, airbrushing, sculpted architecutral foam, gold leaf, pinstriping, wall murals… wood, metal, glass, plastics, etc. I meant NO disrespect to plumbers, electricians or carpenters… theyre outstanding vocations that arent going away anytime soon. In regards to my former profession, Im a realist. Its wise for curious newbies to question the pro and con of sacrificing many years to a dying tradition, especially if one has a family and needs to make a consistent income. If a person is single, with few responsibilities, I say go for it… but with eyes wide open.